Paracelsus/Jail_Hillary attacking locked nodes

Originally Posted by McLovin

My criteria for muting somebody is much simpler than yours Lag. Be a verbal douchebag and I mute you, never to be heard from again.

Everyone has a different threshold!

Originally Posted by McLovin

Only works until they change their handle, which so many seem to do lately.

It does not work that way. It's by GUID. The only way it fails to work is if they buy a new game (or get a new GUID) and rejoin. The other way is through the bug. If you are keyed up and talking while a banned player joins you end up hearing them. Something I hope you will reflect upon if you feel you are hearing banned folks too much.

Originally Posted by McLovin

I've only muted 3 that I can think of. And yes, you are on top of my current mute list.

Glad to be in the chosen few in your case, honestly.

Originally Posted by McLovin

And it always brings me joy when I can frag you, which isn't often enough. I'm sure it's mutual.

I know, right! I mean, the mino/mega has what, a 2 minute respawn time?

A

Originally Posted by Binger

I was informed that the Ultimate factory has a spawn protection option with a timer. The vehicles can't be damaged and they also will not get knocked around by enemy fire. They can still be pushed though.

Will check this out!

Andrew

Originally Posted by Lagzilla

Will check this out!

Andrew

It works. I tried it last night before posting. Blasting a Manta and Raptor with a Mino had no effect. I could still push them around with the Mino and that did cause the Raptor to take damage just from skidding across the floor and hitting the wall.

How about we ruin it for everyone and spawn protect the Arbalest on D-Junk and the Nexis tank on Nightwolf.

Originally Posted by Binger

How about we ruin it for everyone and spawn protect the Arbalest on D-Junk and the Nexis tank on Nightwolf.

I hate you so much!

For real though, IMO, the Minotaur, Megabadger, Areblest & Nexus (all deemer tanks), Turtle and Leviathan class should all be spawnkillable. Raptor class, manta class, Scorpion class, Hellbender class, SPMA, Rail Tank, Badgers, Bio tank, Fire tank, Plasma tank, link tank, Baslisk, Aegis, Crusader, Centaur, Lobreakers, spiders should have spawn protection.

Before we get too into this idea, what ways can you think of where this spawn protection would be a bad or annoying thing? A few off the top of my head....

A) A locked/invincible vehicle blocking a long distance shot to a node you're trying to kill, possibly pushed into that position by enemy
2) An enemy using a locked vehicle as an invincible yet movable thing to hide behind
D) The vehicle spawning while the node is under attack (middle of action) and not being able to kill it until someone jumps in it

Thoughts? Because we may be opening a whole other can of worms with this. I'm for giving it a shot but really I think short temporary bans will fix our initial problem with a way smaller chance of some other unforeseen problem springing up.

I thought I read on here that spawnkilling vehicles at locked nodes was not a ban offense....in fact I've seen a couple of admins do it. Maybe its douchy or maybe its good strategy at times to take out the supervehicles...no one likes to be on the receiving end of Termi or Dimshade in a Levi/Tiamat/Kraken.

And tactically, waiting at a hopelessly locked node, as other pointed out, makes it easy to either kill you, or just ignore you while you do pretty much nothing to help the team.

On an unrelated Note.. Yeahhhh is that the Northville Michigan football team?

Originally Posted by {glr}pooty

I thought I read on here that spawnkilling vehicles at locked nodes was not a ban offense....in fact I've seen a couple of admins do it. Maybe its douchy or maybe its good strategy at times to take out the supervehicles...no one likes to be on the receiving end of Termi or Dimshade in a Levi/Tiamat/Kraken.

And tactically, waiting at a hopelessly locked node, as other pointed out, makes it easy to either kill you, or just ignore you while you do pretty much nothing to help the team.

From the Server Rules: "Spawn killing (players or vehicles): While a normal part of ONS to some extent, consistently doing this will earn you a timeout. Definition of 'consistent' shall be at the discretion of an admin." Other rules give you a hint when it goes over the line... "Disrupting gameplay : Teamkilling, exploiting map design flaws, stacking vehicles... People enjoy playing on our servers, so do not ruin their fun or we will come for you!"

My emphasis added.

Basically, if you are being a dick and annoying the Fuck out of people by spending your time killing vehicles (your teammates unhappy that you aren't around, and the enemy team is unhappy with constant annoyance), you will be banned. Spawn killing the Ion (e.g. on Tanks-alot)... sure. Spawn killing the Mino... sure. That's strategic... and people grudgingly admit it. Damaging/destroying all the vehicles at the core and a primary node is not available... repeatedly... dick move.

Sure... you might go to a node to bring it down, and it locks. We've all been there. Rough up the node and the vehicles a little... sure. Stay there destroying vehicles and spawn killing when the node has no hope of coming up anytime soon or isn't close to the node you are trying to build. Dick move.

Fuzzy's 2¢

I Agree 100% Fuzzy, Well said!

Since I just drove from Texas to Chicago I had some time to think about this.

Not convinced that spawn protecting the vehicle is needed, with only a few exceptions.

It does not happen that much, and when I do see it happening it generally is someone attacking a parked mino or something. Which I agree with being able to do in almost all cases.

A

Originally Posted by FuzzySlippers

From the Server Rules: "Spawn killing (players or vehicles): While a normal part of ONS to some extent, consistently doing this will earn you a timeout. Definition of 'consistent' shall be at the discretion of an admin." Other rules give you a hint when it goes over the line... "Disrupting gameplay : Teamkilling, exploiting map design flaws, stacking vehicles... People enjoy playing on our servers, so do not ruin their fun or we will come for you!"

My emphasis added.

Basically, if you are being a dick and annoying the Fuck out of people by spending your time killing vehicles (your teammates unhappy that you aren't around, and the enemy team is unhappy with constant annoyance), you will be banned. Spawn killing the Ion (e.g. on Tanks-alot)... sure. Spawn killing the Mino... sure. That's strategic... and people grudgingly admit it. Damaging/destroying all the vehicles at the core and a primary node is not available... repeatedly... dick move.

Sure... you might go to a node to bring it down, and it locks. We've all been there. Rough up the node and the vehicles a little... sure. Stay there destroying vehicles and spawn killing when the node has no hope of coming up anytime soon or isn't close to the node you are trying to build. Dick move.

Fuzzy's 2¢

Originally Posted by Lagzilla

Since I just drove from Texas to Chicago I had some time to think about this.

Not convinced that spawn protecting the vehicle is needed, with only a few exceptions.

It does not happen that much, and when I do see it happening it generally is someone attacking a parked mino or something. Which I agree with being able to do in almost all cases.

A

Exactly.

I think there is a misconception on spawn killing by the general population. This happened on MagicIsle; a player took the Arblest from the spawn node and drove it inside the core and did the normal thing that a deemer tank does. After getting killed by deemers, I searched for the enemy Arblest... After making several passes in a Wyvern, I noticed a deemer exiting the enemy core so I entered the core to shoot the Arblest. While doing so, several players spawned in and started to shoot me. In retaliation, I started to shoot back at them. I was labled as a spawn killer. IMO, that is not spawn killing. Taking the Arblest from the spawn node to your own core is fair game. Players shooting me while I'm attacking the enemy Arblest; IMO, its fair game for me to shoot back at you.

Another one is when the enemy Minotaur or Tiamat exit the core and start climbing the hill that leads to the nearest primary or the giant hill to the farthest primary. They are not inside the core so, again, I don't believe that is spawn killing.

Originally Posted by Terminator

I think there is a misconception on spawn killing by the general population. This happened on MagicIsle; a player took the Arblest from the spawn node and drove it inside the core and did the normal thing that a deemer tank does. After getting killed by deemers, I searched for the enemy Arblest... After making several passes in a Wyvern, I noticed a deemer exiting the enemy core so I entered the core to shoot the Arblest. While doing so, several players spawned in and started to shoot me. In retaliation, I started to shoot back at them. I was labled as a spawn killer. IMO, that is not spawn killing. Taking the Arblest from the spawn node to your own core is fair game. Players shooting me while I'm attacking the enemy Arblest; IMO, its fair game for me to shoot back at you.

Another one is when the enemy Minotaur or Tiamat exit the core and start climbing the hill that leads to the nearest primary or the giant hill to the farthest primary. They are not inside the core so, again, I don't believe that is spawn killing.

Indeed. This happens all the time and I especially make it a habit to respond to attacks from places like this (I love disappearing only to pop up 10 seconds later from a different angle)... Shoot at me and I'll kill your ass repeatedly if there's nothing more strategic to be doing at the time. I'm not getting out of the dragon to heal nodes when my team controls every node except one, and I'm not going to let you launch suicide attacks from boards in your base on TankMeUp, let the enemy dragon get off the ground or allow you to man the turrets because some enemy noob refuses to press toward his own nodes.

On the other hand, if there are nodes to be killing not disengaging from an irrelevant counter attack is also one of my major complaints of players, lol

I've been reticent to chime in here, because it's the same old same old. However;

For the most part, disrupting the opponents team is fair game. If players don't like other players doing certain things, then take
on the responsibility of disrupting how they play. Maybe things have changed since I played, but in those days there was
practically zero cries of "spawn killing".

Whenever I used to engage in black-ops tactics it was always successful at first, until my playing brothers/sisters noticed that
my tactics were affecting the outcome of the game in favour of my team. Then one of them would adjust and counter-act my
tactics. If they were effective, then I would attempt to come up with an alternative plan. Just part of the game.

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem

...For the most part...

The definition of this is what this whole debate is about.

Obviously I'm against this kind of behavior and I think it's bad sportsmanship but I think everyone should be treated fairly so I want to point out that it seems to me that this is why Pam was banned. I haven't gone back and read the threads on her getting banned but wasn't it pretty much the same thing that Paracelsus is doing in the screen shots here. I know maybe she mouthed off a little but wasn't that after she was banned. Roger's ban was similar, right? His ban was BS, imo, because his disruption of the other team was always geared directly towards winning. Much more so than Pam and Cletus. Yet he was banned and told not to do that anymore when the ban was lifted but Cletus is allowed to go on doing this shit. Heck, maybe even Mutant Pilgrim should be allowed back in. How was what he was doing any worse than this?

If this is going to be allowed then let Pam back on the server. I'm pretty sure she still plays.

Originally Posted by Binger

There is somewhat of a fix for people spawn killing vehicles but iirc Carpe was against it.

It would take editing each vehicle but they can be set up to not take damage from enemy fire until they are unlocked. There are already at least a couple of vehicles in the game that are like this. I think the Short Circuit is one of them (maybe all the Rampage vehicles?). They can still be damaged from colliding into things it they are knocked around. This could be done for all vehicles except things like Minos and Ion tanks or whatever.

For the record, I don't think I stated any kind of preference for this "fix". If you want to go ahead and edit the Omni fleet and supply all the necessary
files for the server, I say "have at it".

Originally Posted by Binger

The definition of this is what this whole debate is about.

Obviously I'm against this kind of behavior and I think it's bad sportsmanship but I think everyone should be treated fairly so I want to point out that it seems to me that this is why Pam was banned. I haven't gone back and read the threads on her getting banned but wasn't it pretty much the same thing that Paracelsus is doing in the screen shots here. I know maybe she mouthed off a little but wasn't that after she was banned. Roger's ban was similar, right? His ban was BS, imo, because his disruption of the other team was always geared directly towards winning. Much more so than Pam and Cletus. Yet he was banned and told not to do that anymore when the ban was lifted but Cletus is allowed to go on doing this shit. Heck, maybe even Mutant Pilgrim should be allowed back in. How was what he was doing any worse than this?

If this is going to be allowed then let Pam back on the server. I'm pretty sure she still plays.

Pam or any of the others are welcome back at any time. All they have to do is purchase another GUID.

Since I'm a non-playing admin, I really have no feel for Cletus. I have no idea of OhYeah's collection of screenshots are two days, a week or three months worth. So
you need to lobby the playing admins for action or build a more concise case presentation if you're to persuade me to act. I have no issue slapping a ban on him to
get him in here IF I know he's misbehaving.

Before getting into this, shouldn't all this bullshit be here? http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthread.php?t=15021

Originally Posted by FuzzySlippers

Basically, if you are being a dick and annoying the Fuck out of people by spending your time killing vehicles (your teammates unhappy that you aren't around, and the enemy team is unhappy with constant annoyance), you will be banned. Spawn killing the Ion (e.g. on Tanks-alot)... sure. Spawn killing the Mino... sure. That's strategic... and people grudgingly admit it. Damaging/destroying all the vehicles at the core and a primary node is not available... repeatedly... dick move.

FuzzySlippers pretty much sums it up.

• If Paracelsus spends a protracted amounts of time destroying empty vehicles and spawn killing people then I'll ban him.
• If ROGER spends a protracted amounts of time destroying empty vehicles and spawn killing people then I'll ban him.
• If Terminator spends a protracted amounts of time destroying empty vehicles and spawn killing people then I'll ban him.
• If Xexx spends a protracted amounts of time destroying empty vehicles and spawn killing people then I'll ban him.
• If Lagzilla spends a protracted amounts of time destroying empty vehicles and spawn killing people then I'll ban him.
• If McGimpkins spends a protracted amounts of time destroying empty vehicles and spawn killing people then I'll ban him.

Are you seeing the pattern now? It is the word protracted. I could give a shit less if someone takes a couple of pot shot at random parts in the game, however if you have made it your mission, win or lose to spend large amounts of the game shooting empty vehicles or killing people as they spawn, then expect to have some sort of disciplinary action taken on you.

Granted the spawn protection (what is it 5 seconds?) has significantly reduced the spawn killing shenanigans in game. Now I can actually get to a weapons locker and defend myself in some way to the antics that have occurred in the past, albeit at the cost of being able to immediately kill the people that spawn into a node that I am attacking.

So YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH has some screenshots, let all of us go though them:



Ok Paracelsus is on the other side of the map on MasterBath, um... should I ban everyone that is on the other side of Masterbath? Because if I do we'll have maybe 2 people left on the server. Given the design of MasterBath I'm not sure you can be spawn killing. Besides from this picture it looks like 3 may have been up and there might actually be people in Blue's core trying to kill it.



Tyrant, ok Paracelsus is poorly shooting at people in the core. Kill him. In addition, did you not notice the 8 other people running though your core area with Mantas? Once again given the design of Tyrant I'm not sure you actually can be spawn killing on the map.



2 is being built and Paracelsus is at 3? Awesome, I suggest that everyone get to the next node while someone is building the previous node and get ready to kill it or anyone else that spawns there, I do it all the time it is call Onslaught.



Yeah, this is a dick move, if I see a lot of it then expect admin action.



7 is being built and Paracelsus is at 4? Awesome, I suggest that everyone get to the next node while someone is building the previous node and get ready to kill it or anyone else that spawns there, I do it all the time it is call Onslaught.



This is the same screenshot as before, I don't understand why it is in here....



More dick shit. Once again if I catch him spending a lot of time doing it something will happen.



This is dickesh, his time would be better spent in the middle.



It looks like 4 was being built, then it was destroyed, in the meanwhile Paracelsus when to 1, Ok...



Not really sure what this does, as anyone that spawns in there they will be immune to his mines, then again he was never the sharpest knife in the drawer.



More dickesh stuff on AlienHop, although it does look like he is leaving 7 and going towards 5 while taking a pot shot at the vehicles at 2. Personally I think his time would be better spent building 7 and doing a core run with the bio.



Cannot tell if he is leaving 4 and going to 7 or what is going on in this pic.



OK, see Tyrant Manta notes above.



OK, see Tyrant Manta notes above.

YEAAAHHHHHHHHHH, I am not saying that your claims of Paracelsus being a spawn killing asshole are without merit, in addition I may end if taking admin action against him, however I have spectated him several times since your complaint and have not noticed him spending any time fucking off, all I have seen is him doing his Paracelsus mediocre gameplay. I'll try to keep an eye on him in the future, and if you see him doing egregious bullshilt post it up.

Originally Posted by McGimpkins

I'll try to keep an eye on him in the future, and if you see him doing egregious bullshilt post it up.

For sure, I'll keep posting as I see it. He has done it nearly every time I've played with him in the last couple months so I'm sure there will be more.

Yes I understand some of these are weak cases but I included them to show a behavior pattern. And yeah that one got in there twice copying and pasting sorry about that.

Originally Posted by {glr}pooty

On an unrelated Note.. Yeahhhh is that the Northville Michigan football team?

I just googled locker room pep talk or something like that. My lame attempt at trying to keep the discussion positive

Binger, I enjoying playing with you and think you are fun to play with, however I do not know what it is you are going on about.

From the beginning of Roger's ban you made it crystal clear you did not agree:

Originally Posted by Binger

If you don't want people to do this then take it out of the map or change it characteristics. This is not simple spawnkilling. It's more complicated than that.

I disagree with this ban.

I get it, I understand, you didn't agree with the ban. Roger has since been unbanned, he has played fine and I have had no problems with him. I don't know why this is still being brought up, but since you persist, I have several questions for you.

You stated:

Originally Posted by Binger

Roger's ban was similar, right? His ban was BS, imo, because his disruption of the other team was always geared directly towards winning.

Since you are adamant about a player that has been banned and reinstated, please take a look at the following pictures and explain to me how Roger disruption is "always geared directly towards winning".




















Yep, that all looks like "playing to win". Do I live in a parallel universe from you where by Paminantor and Paracelsus are asshole players and Roger's old game play is the most awesome thing since sliced bread? Why the fuck are we still talking about Roger?