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Old 02-14-2017, 12:36 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
Although a "legal" tactic, "legit" is debatable. I think it's a very weak tactic
Why ? When we played in tournament play, on certain maps (particularly choke point maps) some players would be tasked
with slowing down the enemy down so our team could, you know, win. It's a perfectly valid tactic in order to achieve the
objectives of ONS. Period.

There is no Marquis de Queensbury rules in "war".
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:12 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
Why ? When we played in tournament play, on certain maps (particularly choke point maps) some players would be tasked
with slowing down the enemy down so our team could, you know, win. It's a perfectly valid tactic in order to achieve the
objectives of ONS. Period.

There is no Marquis de Queensbury rules in "war".
I think the most striking thing I can see is that:
1) Killing the primary builders of the first nodes... it does not seem really help to do it. You generally go kill the builders, it comes up anyways with little impact to how the map turns out. True in TMU and Tyrant.
2) Approving of the behavior seems to contradict the locked node rules on the server. 2-3 locked deep in TMU, 2 locked deep in Tyrant
3) It seems to contradict the don't be a dick rule. To the other team or your own.

I agree with Enyo, the flier should go help get your side built faster.
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Old 02-15-2017, 08:52 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
Why ? When we played in tournament play, on certain maps (particularly choke point maps) some players would be tasked
with slowing down the enemy down so our team could, you know, win. It's a perfectly valid tactic in order to achieve the
objectives of ONS. Period.
OK, I can maybe see it being an effective tactic in tournament play where you have a cohesive team of like-minded players that, well, work as a team. That's when you can task a particular player to be a disruption, because you know the rest of the team is building nodes. However, in the wacky world of non-tournament OMNI play, you just can't consistently rely on the rest of your team to do the right thing, i.e. build nodes. Too many players here operate on their own agenda and not that of the team. I can't count how many times Xexx has predictably come straight to the primary in a hammerhead on MTMU while the rest of his team wanders aimlessly, not quickly building primary/secondary nodes, and his team gets slaughtered. Still a good tactic at that point?

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There is no Marquis de Queensbury rules in "war".
True, but there is a great book called The Art of War, and I find many of its principles apply very well to this game. In it, predictability is mentioned many times as the enemy to success in war. As noted above in the example of Xexx, this tactic has become extremely predictable from certain players and I'm always on the lookout for the likely incoming hammerhead. Very easy to prevent the attack if you know it's coming... I'll typically take the dragon toward 8/9 to 1) drop a couple players at the secondary, and 2) surprise intercept the hammerhead from a lateral angle because he's not looking for the dragon, he's focused on ambushing the node.
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Old 02-15-2017, 09:11 AM   #24
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As noted above in the example of Xexx, this tactic has become extremely predictable from certain players and I'm always on the lookout for the likely incoming hammerhead. Very easy to prevent the attack if you know it's coming... I'll typically take the dragon toward 8/9 to 1) drop a couple players at the secondary, and 2) surprise intercept the hammerhead from a lateral angle because he's not looking for the dragon, he's focused on ambushing the node.
Oh hell yes, good tactic Enyo! Kill that mFer dead in his tracks, maybe he/they will stop doing it. Punish that bad behavior. LOL
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Old 02-18-2017, 12:07 AM   #25
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OK, I can maybe see it being an effective tactic in tournament play where you have a cohesive team of like-minded players that, well, work as a team. That's when you can task a particular player to be a disruption, because you know the rest of the team is building nodes. However, in the wacky world of non-tournament OMNI play, you just can't consistently rely on the rest of your team to do the right thing, i.e. build nodes. Too many players here operate on their own agenda and not that of the team. I can't count how many times Xexx has predictably come straight to the primary in a hammerhead on MTMU while the rest of his team wanders aimlessly, not quickly building primary/secondary nodes, and his team gets slaughtered. Still a good tactic at that point?
Valid point. However, I'm not necessarily suggesting it's a good tactic in public play, but merely commenting that it shouldn't
be deemed "illegal" or "bannable".

I of course don't play anymore, but in my "era" of play I think that team cohesion must have been greater than it is now as
the disruption tactic was valid.


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Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
True, but there is a great book called The Art of War, and I find many of its principles apply very well to this game. In it, predictability is mentioned many times as the enemy to success in war. As noted above in the example of Xexx, this tactic has become extremely predictable from certain players and I'm always on the lookout for the likely incoming hammerhead. Very easy to prevent the attack if you know it's coming... I'll typically take the dragon toward 8/9 to 1) drop a couple players at the secondary, and 2) surprise intercept the hammerhead from a lateral angle because he's not looking for the dragon, he's focused on ambushing the node.
When Kakmo first appeared, I would always grab the closest Manta off spawn and get 2, if not 3 riders. We'd hustle to the secondary node (2?), I'd drop them all
and by the time I got to the tertiary (4?) it would be ready to start, I'd start it, charge it some then I'd head to the deemer spawn, grab it, and head to the enemies secondary (can't remember the number). By the time I got there, our tertiary would be coming up, I'd nuke the enemy node and start it. With luck I could get it
built and get to their core for a few hits. At the very least it would put the opponents on their heels.

Alas, as you point out, predictability became an issue. Particularly because the players on my team that helped execute this move were more often than not on
opposing teams. And the jerks would be waiting for me at the deemer spawn, or otherwise screwing up my master plan.

ahhh, the memories...
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:38 PM   #26
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Binger you are a true gentleman! You always say and do the right thing. You are a great example to the rest of us douche bags. I'm so glad you are on the server to bring some balance and good karma here. Thank you Binger
Thanks Ol' Buddy. I really appreciate your kind words.
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Old 02-18-2017, 03:41 PM   #27
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When Kakmo first appeared, I would always grab the closest Manta off spawn and...
I felt like this needed one of those harp dream sequence intro fade things.
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Old 02-20-2017, 10:14 AM   #28
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I felt like this needed one of those harp dream sequence intro fade things.


Ya, it was playing in my head as I typed it...
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Old 02-20-2017, 01:44 PM   #29
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OK, I can maybe see it being an effective tactic in tournament play where you have a cohesive team of like-minded players that, well, work as a team. That's when you can task a particular player to be a disruption, because you know the rest of the team is building nodes. However, in the wacky world of non-tournament OMNI play, you just can't consistently rely on the rest of your team to do the right thing, i.e. build nodes. Too many players here operate on their own agenda and not that of the team. I can't count how many times Xexx has predictably come straight to the primary in a hammerhead on MTMU while the rest of his team wanders aimlessly, not quickly building primary/secondary nodes, and his team gets slaughtered. Still a good tactic at that point?
There are 4 boards capable of carrying ~8 players, a dragon capable of 3 and badgers that are fast enough to help build nodes. What are the boards going to do at the beginning of the round BUT get nodes? If the team can't spare the hammerhead and all the mentioned vehicles capable of node ferrying don't build nodes, then nothing is going to salvage the game. If the mino isn't in the action hitting the 9/8 corner node as soon as possible then the team doesn't deserve to win anyway.

The tactic is pretty damn effective for getting the lead at the beginning of the round, even if the dragon is used for defense (probably less than half the time) then you can still usually kill the first responding node builders. Even then it doesn't have free reign to harass the corner node while your team is building it.

That said, it is best used sparingly once per match for best effectiveness, especially if you get the right alternative node config I've had it easily win matches.
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Old 02-20-2017, 03:17 PM   #30
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Just a side note about hover boards.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xexx View Post
There are 4 boards capable of carrying ~8 players.
Guy says you can put 5 players on 1 hover board. I've never seen it done, cause I can only get 2 at most to step on at a time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xexx View Post
What are the boards going to do at the beginning of the round BUT get nodes?
Hover boards can be an effective offensive weapon. You can terrorize the mino, especially if he has any momentum going, spin it, steer it into a wall, push it into the ditch. I've tried flipping it, but that doesn't work. It would be funny as hell if you could. You can keep that mino dazed and confused until he kills you. If he pulls the trigger on his main gun, he risks losing half his health. Haven't tried a frontal assault yet on startup, but I WILL. I COMING FOR YOU MINO DRIVER. Best take gunners. HEHE!

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Old 02-20-2017, 11:44 PM   #31
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There are 4 boards capable of carrying ~8 players, a dragon capable of 3 and badgers that are fast enough to help build nodes. What are the boards going to do at the beginning of the round BUT get nodes? If the team can't spare the hammerhead and all the mentioned vehicles capable of node ferrying don't build nodes, then nothing is going to salvage the game. If the mino isn't in the action hitting the 9/8 corner node as soon as possible then the team doesn't deserve to win anyway.

The tactic is pretty damn effective for getting the lead at the beginning of the round, even if the dragon is used for defense (probably less than half the time) then you can still usually kill the first responding node builders. Even then it doesn't have free reign to harass the corner node while your team is building it.

That said, it is best used sparingly once per match for best effectiveness, especially if you get the right alternative node config I've had it easily win matches.
The trouble is, it seems like people have a hard time looking at their team, sorting out your capabilities and choosing where to go. If you have a team that will struggle, taking a flier and being a dick does not help the team.

Knowing when to use the tactic goes a long way.
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:13 AM   #32
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While how effective it is can be debatable, I think some of it has to do with which player is doing it. I've seen Hardspike do this and nobody really complains since he's not a douchebag. Other players who are disliked or have a history of using questionable tactics may get a different reaction.
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Old 02-21-2017, 10:32 AM   #33
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...I think some of it has to do with which player is doing it. I've seen Hardspike do this and nobody really complains since he's not a douchebag. Other players who are disliked or have a history of using questionable tactics may get a different reaction.
TRU DAT!

On a similar note: Our tactics become so perfected almost predictable. At least I do pretty much the same type of maneuvers on every map I play. It's my profile. I've spectated others and they pretty much do the same over and over depending on which map is it.

The truly unpredictable players are the ones that invent new maneuvers and tactics. I've seen Guy do this. He adapts well. But the truly creative genius at new tactics and maneuvers of all time I think was Roger, Termi is a close 2nd. Yeah, Roger was pretty douchey in his day, but he has repented since. I've laughed my ass off spectating him doing crazy shit I would never imagine. And only Termi can get a badger up topside on Tanks-A-Lot. Amazeballs!

You can learn more about this game by spectating. More than you could ever learn by playing 1st person. I highly recommend it to any new comers. But please adopt the good tactics, not the douchey ones.
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Old 02-21-2017, 12:49 PM   #34
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But the truly creative genius at new tactics and maneuvers of all time I think was Roger, .
Yeah...Bio in the core, he's the only one!
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Old 02-22-2017, 11:45 AM   #35
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Yeah...Bio in the core, he's the only one!
It was more of a problem when both sides could use the heal spot.
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Old 02-22-2017, 02:09 PM   #36
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It was more of a problem when both sides could use the heal spot.
I thought you still could.
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Old 02-22-2017, 05:20 PM   #37
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I thought you still could.
Some versions you can, others you can't. I don't remember which.
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Old 02-23-2017, 03:37 AM   #38
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Just a side note about hover boards.

Hover boards can be an effective offensive weapon. You can terrorize the mino, especially if he has any momentum going, spin it, steer it into a wall, push it into the ditch. ... You can keep that mino dazed and confused until he kills you. If he pulls the trigger on his main gun, he risks losing half his health. Haven't tried a frontal assault yet on startup, but I WILL. I COMING FOR YOU MINO DRIVER. Best take gunners. HEHE!
This works! We were playing Kamek tonight and Svauser (I think) had the enemy mino. I was able to steer him into the wall on main street outside his base before he blew me to bits. Then he did a classic "dognuts position" and I pushed him back into the alley and launched a nuke on him. He didn't have any gunners. He was still alive but terribly wounded. Somebody else finished him off.

I just wished it was Beetchucker that was driving that mino instead. He's way more fun to terrorize when he is driving the mino. LOL

Be afraid (mino drivers), be very afraid. We're coming for you, you mino whores!
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Old 02-23-2017, 09:33 AM   #39
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Yep, McLovin, I was in that match too. I used the hoverboard to spin Svauser (that little mino whore) out right has he approached the bridge. Caused him to take damage from a couple of nearby vehicles, then I finished him off with a backpack nuke. Very effective use of a hoverboard indeed... I learned it from watching you, McLovin, I learned it from watching you.
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Old 02-26-2017, 10:59 AM   #40
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Hover boards can be an effective offensive weapon. You can terrorize the mino, especially if he has any momentum going, spin it, steer it into a wall, push it into the ditch. I've tried flipping it, but that doesn't work. It would be funny as hell if you could. You can keep that mino dazed and confused until he kills you. If he pulls the trigger on his main gun, he risks losing half his health. Haven't tried a frontal assault yet on startup, but I WILL. I COMING FOR YOU MINO DRIVER. Best take gunners. HEHE!
Why wouldn't the mino-jockey switch seats and dispense with the hover-board/dude ?
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