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Old 12-22-2016, 04:32 PM   #1
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So what are your thoughts on taking the Bio damage multiplier thing out of the Tiamat and Kraken? Does anyone know if this will prevent the spinning camera thing?

Afaik there is no stand-alone Tiamat file so I've been working on pulling that out of a map and making one with a factory. I think I've got it done so I wanted to get opinions on changes, since that is the whole point. Mostly what I'm looking for opinions on is the damage multiplier stuff. Here's what's on the Tiamat I pulled off of A-JunkV3. The Hover Bike is the Manta and the Attack Craft is the Raptor. I think the Flak Chunk is the primary fire on the Flak Gun and might apply to other stuff like the Alligator but not sure about that. The Bio Glob is both the gun and the tank. Tank Shell might also apply to things other than the Goliath.

Imo, these should all be removed. None of these are on the original Leviathan. If we are going to give an infantry gun more power my suggestion would be the Link gun.

Also, I'm not sure if these are the same on the Kraken. I haven't checked that yet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
The Tiamet from A-JunkV3...

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeBioGlob')
Damage *= 3.00;

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeTankShell')
Damage *= 0.9;

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeHoverBikePlasma')
Damage *= 0.50;

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeONSCicadaRocket')
Damage *= 0.50;

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeAttackCraftPlasma')
Damage *= 0.50;

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeFlakChunk')
Damage *= 1.1;

if (DamageType == class'DamTypeShockBeam')
Damage *= 2.0;

Edit: DamTypeShockBeam includes VehicleDamageScaling=0.850000
A few technical things on my attempts to make a stand-alone file.

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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
I tried to make a non-embedded Tiamat so we could change what we wanted but I'm getting this error when it spawns. I'll keep trying.

Code:
Assertion failed: Alpha >= 0 && Alpha <= 1 [File:.\UnMath.cpp] [Line: 537]

History: FInterpCurve::Eval <- AONSWheeledCraft::UpdateVehicle <-  ASVehicle::execUpdateVehicle <- UObject::ProcessEvent <- (Tiamat  Autoplay.Tiamat, Function Engine.SVehicle.UpdateVehicle) <-  ASVehicle::preKarmaStep <- AONSWheeledCraft::preKarmaStep <-  CallPreBodyStep <- ProcessPartitions <- KWorldStepSafeTime <-  KTickLevelKarma <- TickAllActors <- ULevel::Tick <- (NetMode=0)  <- TickLevel <- UGameEngine::Tick <- Level  ONS-MasterBath-Ren)o(vation <- UpdateWorld <- MainLoop <-  FMallocWindows::Free <- FMallocWindows::Realloc <- 10910191 0  FArray <- FArray::Realloc <- 0*2 <-  FMallocWindows::Free
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
I took this line out and it worked.

TorqueCurve=(Points=(,,(OutVal=5.000000),(InVal=20 00.000000)))

This Leviathon has this line.

TorqueCurve=(Points=((OutVal=36.000000),(InVal=200 .000000,OutVal=4.000000),(InVal=1500.000000,OutVal =5.500000),(InVal=2500.000000)))

IDK.
So I copied the whole TorqueCurve line from the Leviathan into the Tiamat and changed the values that I think correspond to the ones in the Tiamat. So this is the line now.

TorqueCurve=(Points=((OutVal=36.000000),(InVal=200 .000000,OutVal=4.000000),(InVal=1500.000000,OutVal =5.000000),(InVal=2000.000000)))

---------

I noticed that the Tiamat rides way high. It's wheels are above the ground. I changed that but when I tried it on Magic Isle it couldn't even get past that right-side primary without get hung up so I think it's best to just leave it as is even though it looks dumb. I've never even noticed it in game.

I moved one of the lasers to the back on the opposite corner from the one on the front to give more coverage.

I removed the files for the missile and beam turrets.
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Old 12-22-2016, 04:42 PM   #2
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I'd be willing to remove damage modifiers from the Kraken/Tiamat and Mino in future map edits.
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:09 PM   #3
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Binger, thanks for looking into this! I think the bio damage modifier should be completely removed from the game. IMO, it was a mistake to add; even towards the Minotaur. If we could keep the bio modifier will fixing the rolling screen at the same time, then I'd be all for it to stay. I'd also be all for a modifier for a different weapon, such as the link gun as you mentioned. However, we also have superweapons to take out vehicles with; OMFG, No Skillz Flak, Transloc, Black Angus, Trans Dem Distributor. So either way, a stronger link gun or more of the above weapons added to maps to compensate for no bio modifier will be okay with me.
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:30 PM   #4
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Yes, let's make the Bio Tank useless.
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:54 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo K View Post
I'd be willing to remove damage modifiers from the Kraken/Tiamat and Mino in future map edits.
It should be reduced, not remove IMHO. Get the max damage inflicted under 1200?

A
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Old 12-22-2016, 10:56 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz] View Post
Yes, let's make the Bio Tank useless.
Care to elaborate? The Bio tank can take out any vehicle with one shot except the Leviathan varieties. It can also destroy a node in one shot and a full health core in, what, 3 seconds. It also has a fairly powerful laser turret. Yeah, seems useless to me. I guess in your opinion it's worth having the driver's view go spinning so that it can take out a Kraken in just a few seconds? How about we make it fly and have a shield? Will that be useful enough?
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Old 12-22-2016, 11:01 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
Binger, thanks for looking into this! I think the bio damage modifier should be completely removed from the game. IMO, it was a mistake to add; even towards the Minotaur. If we could keep the bio modifier will fixing the rolling screen at the same time, then I'd be all for it to stay. I'd also be all for a modifier for a different weapon, such as the link gun as you mentioned. However, we also have superweapons to take out vehicles with; OMFG, No Skillz Flak, Transloc, Black Angus, Trans Dem Distributor. So either way, a stronger link gun or more of the above weapons added to maps to compensate for no bio modifier will be okay with me.
I would rather have the driver spinning from get breathed on then have any of those weapons in an Onslaught map.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
It should be reduced, not remove IMHO. Get the max damage inflicted under 1200?

A
Is 1200 the point at which it makes the view spin.
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Old 12-23-2016, 01:06 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
Care to elaborate? The Bio tank can take out any vehicle with one shot except the Leviathan varieties. It can also destroy a node in one shot and a full health core in, what, 3 seconds. It also has a fairly powerful laser turret. Yeah, seems useless to me. I guess in your opinion it's worth having the driver's view go spinning so that it can take out a Kraken in just a few seconds? How about we make it fly and have a shield? Will that be useful enough?
Assuming you got past all the infantry, fast-movers, flyers, and anyone past the Bio Tank's effective range, then yes, it's overpowered. Also, you are implying that I stated the Bio Tank is useless in its current state, which I did not. It will be less than worth the effort of trying to sneak it up to a Leviathan soon. Try it on a full server.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:11 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post

Is 1200 the point at which it makes the view spin.
I don't see how that would be possible since the Minotaur does 1450 and it doesn't make the Kraken/Tiamat view spin. Taking an opposing blast from the Tiamat or Kraken doesn't make the view spin either and a Tiamat blast will one shot another Tiamat.
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:14 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz] View Post
Assuming you got past all the infantry, fast-movers, flyers, and anyone past the Bio Tank's effective range, then yes, it's overpowered. Also, you are implying that I stated the Bio Tank is useless in its current state, which I did not. It will be less than worth the effort of trying to sneak it up to a Leviathan soon. Try it on a full server.
Am I reading this correctly? The whole point of sneaking up to the Leviathan/Kraken/Tiamat (with a Bio tank) is to make the drivers view spin?
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Old 12-23-2016, 09:19 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
I would rather have the driver spinning from get breathed on then have any of those weapons in an Onslaught map.
I purposely said that to get you steaming!!! Woohoo!

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Old 12-23-2016, 10:10 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Terminator View Post
I don't see how that would be possible since the Minotaur does 1450 and it doesn't make the Kraken/Tiamat view spin. Taking an opposing blast from the Tiamat or Kraken doesn't make the view spin either and a Tiamat blast will one shot another Tiamat.

Castiel may remember the number, but I thought we started having odd behavior in that range, particularly with repeated high value hits.

We can test on the server if you have time Terminator.

A
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Old 12-23-2016, 06:58 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz] View Post
Assuming you got past all the infantry, fast-movers, flyers, and anyone past the Bio Tank's effective range, then yes, it's overpowered. Also, you are implying that I stated the Bio Tank is useless in its current state, which I did not. It will be less than worth the effort of trying to sneak it up to a Leviathan soon. Try it on a full server.
I didn't say anything about changing the BioTank. I suggested changing the Tiamat and Kraken so that the BioTank wouldn't make the driver spin, which requires (I think) reducing the damage from the BioTank. So unless you misunderstood that then you are saying that the BioTank is only useful for destroying the Tiamat/Kraken. How else am I a supposed to read that?

Look, Anon, I encourage disagreements but don't shit on my opinions like a 12 year old troll and I won't get defensive. Discuss maturely please, or at least throw in a smiley.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
Castiel may remember the number, but I thought we started having odd behavior in that range, particularly with repeated high value hits.

We can test on the server if you have time Terminator.

A
So apparently I was wrong. I took out all those damage multiplier things but it didn't effect how fast the BioTank killed the Tiamat. Things don't seem to add up for me. BioTank doesn't even use DamTypeBioGlob. Damage seems off on other vehicles also. Shot timing on alt-fire looks like it's supposed to be 1.4 seconds but it seems more like 1.0 to me. I think I'm in over my head here.

Edit: My only guess at this point is something related to the damage radius?????? I suppose I could try to add the damage type for the BioTank to the Tiamat and use a value less than 1 for the multiplier.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:09 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
wouldn't make the driver spin, which requires (I think) reducing the damage from the BioTank
You see, I like making their screens spin.
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Old 12-23-2016, 08:59 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz] View Post
You see, I like making their screens spin.
Lol.

Okay so I think my biggest mistake here was assuming the Minotaur and Kraken/Tiamat had the same damage multiplier from the BioTank as they had from the BioGun. That doesn't appear to be the case. I'm not sure why I was thinking that. As far as I can tell the BioTank does the same amount of damage to those vehicles as it would to any vehicle. It seems to actually take just a little more than one full alt-fire shot from the BioTank to kill the Minotaur so why that doesn't spin the driver also idk. The Minotaur does have a damage multiplier from the BioGun of *5.

I tried adding the damage type from the BioTank to the Tiamat with a multiplier of 0.5 but it seems like you can only add damage types that are in your UT folder, like the stock ones. I'm not sure how it would work trying to add a non-stock damage type as a multiplier in a another vehicle, so giving up on that.

I still don't understand why the BioTank does so much damage to vehicles (I'm only seeing damage of 550) or why the camera spins. I think I'm done without help from someone like Wormbo. If it requires changing the BioTank to stop the spinning then I would say that's a no-go.
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Old 12-24-2016, 01:46 AM   #16
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Earlier tonight Racer said that the BioTank caused his view to spin when he was in the Leviathan. I thought didn't happen. I thought it was only in the Kraken and Tiamat. If I had known that I wouldn't have started this. He also said that the Bio Rifle will do the same thing to the Tiamat on TAL, so I'm assuming that means it could also do it to the Leviathan. Well if stock weapon on stock vehicle can cause the spin then there's no hope. Maybe it is intentional as some people say. I'm dropping this unless people think it's worth it just to take out the reduced damage from the Raptor and Manta.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:24 AM   #17
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Actually, that was me that said that Binger, but yes, I have definitely experienced the screen spin on Nevermore when a biotank hits the levi (or is that the tiamat?)... I get them mixed up because I rarely get in them, don't care for the slowness of the tiamat/levi/kraken family. Either way, happened last night while we were playing on nevermore. AND I've definitely had it happen on TAL when in the levi or whatever it is and someone, I think with double damage, hits it just right with the biorifle alt fire, I've had it spin then too.
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Old 12-24-2016, 03:15 AM   #18
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It's a levi. Spin happens on any level that has vehicles or double damages that can impart enough single shot damage.
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Old 12-24-2016, 10:00 AM   #19
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A note on:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz] View Post
Yes, let's make the Bio Tank useless.
The code specifically cares only for the exact Bio Rifle projectile damage type. As far as I can tell, the Bio Tank uses a separate damage type that the vehicles' damage scaling code is completely unaware of, therefore applying no additional scaling. The Bio Tank's "BioTankKill" damage type has a fixed vehicle damage multiplier of 1.5 for all vehicles and destroyable game objectives.

As far as the damage output is concerned, the Bio Tank inherits the Bio Rifle projectile logic of "Damage = BaseDamage + Damage * GoopLevel;" and "DamageRadius = DamageRadius * GoopVolume;", where GoopLevel and GoopVolume both seem to be 2 for the BioTankGlobBomb, while BaseDamage is 100 and Damage is 550. That's 1200*1.5=1800 damage against vehicles.
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Old 12-24-2016, 02:36 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
Actually, that was me that said that Binger, but yes, I have definitely experienced the screen spin on Nevermore when a biotank hits the levi (or is that the tiamat?)... I get them mixed up because I rarely get in them, don't care for the slowness of the tiamat/levi/kraken family. Either way, happened last night while we were playing on nevermore. AND I've definitely had it happen on TAL when in the levi or whatever it is and someone, I think with double damage, hits it just right with the biorifle alt fire, I've had it spin then too.
Oops, sorry Enyo. I've been high like 10,000 times so it's amazing I can even remember who I am.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
It's a levi. Spin happens on any level that has vehicles or double damages that can impart enough single shot damage.
But it only happens with Bio goop right? It's weird that things like the Mino and Leviathan don't make other things spin when they survive a shot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormbo View Post
A note on:


The code specifically cares only for the exact Bio Rifle projectile damage type. As far as I can tell, the Bio Tank uses a separate damage type that the vehicles' damage scaling code is completely unaware of, therefore applying no additional scaling. The Bio Tank's "BioTankKill" damage type has a fixed vehicle damage multiplier of 1.5 for all vehicles and destroyable game objectives.

As far as the damage output is concerned, the Bio Tank inherits the Bio Rifle projectile logic of "Damage = BaseDamage + Damage * GoopLevel;" and "DamageRadius = DamageRadius * GoopVolume;", where GoopLevel and GoopVolume both seem to be 2 for the BioTankGlobBomb, while BaseDamage is 100 and Damage is 550. That's 1200*1.5=1800 damage against vehicles.
Thanks for looking into this Wormbo. Any thoughts on why the driver's camera spins?

I figured out the damage type stuff although I missed the 1.5.

I saw that one line but didn't understand it. Thanks for explaining. I still don't understand though. Not that it matters but wouldn't it be 100 + 550 * 2 = 1300? 1800 seems more like the actual value though.
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