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Old 04-19-2016, 04:50 AM   #21
Lagzilla
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Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
This whole discussion wasn't even about the auto-balancer, but since Lagzilla decided to interject it into the conversation as a petty way to attack me, I feel the need for a rebuttal.
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Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
So much for that, I guess, because you sure seem to like to shit all over every idea I put forth. Nothing but one sarcastic, denigrating attack after another without contributing something useful to the conversation...
I reviewed all of the comments you posted that I have added to this thread. I don't see any denigrating or sarcastic anything in any of it. Nor do I see an shitting over your ideas.

Also, my comments provide context here, where you are not in voice chat being difficult at EVERY CHANCE YOU GET when it comes to how terrible of an idea the balancer is, and how it should just go back to the broken ass way it was.


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Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
You see Lagzilla, I actually respect your point of view and once agreed that an auto-balancer was a good idea, in theory. But in practice it just doesn't seem to accomplish what it's intended to do in the eyes of more than just 2 or 3 payers. I'm all for fair matches, never once has anyone ever heard me say I like the teams being unbalanced.
I never said only 2 or 3 people had an opinion on the balancer. I said 2 or 3 people have hated the balancer from day one.

You have hated the balancer since the beginning, for the idea, not the implementation. You have stated so repeatedly over the time it has been operation. We get it. I get it. I understand your point of view and don't agree, and will not likely change my mind to fuel ego or whatever is driving your desire to go back to the old and broken way.

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Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
I can name off a few folks I played with the last couple nights that expressed their dislike at least once for the balancer because it often doesn't balance teams fairly.
Which I have also said, and there is good discussion about what is going on and what is being looked at. I have never claimed it was perfect, and actually would love to see it updated to work better.

As far as the people you mention... I would hope they would invest the time and speak their opinions to make the server more enjoyable for all. As you will see below, everyone you mention has their own account. The community can't evolve without people talking here about it, which I encourage.

Spike - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts. Also, he is one of the 3 people I mention in my post. Sometimes you are the bug, sometimes the windshield. Laughable.

Smoker - The balancer was heavily supported by Smoker here in the forums. He has been an active part of the discussion, and been fairly open in the group with his thoughts.

Vincent - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Xexx - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
GTKU - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Kronix - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
tres-gonads - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
McLovin - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Provert - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Anonymous - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Duh - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.

Sarge - (he hated it so much he quit playing here) - You know as well as I do that he used this as an excuse to leave. He was burned out on the game, the community or the whatever I don't really care. Towards the end he was whiny, abusive and an AH in game. Good riddance. Also, one of the people against the balancer from the start.

I have repeatedly stated that I want more people in forum to discuss the balancer, and any other server related topics to improve our experiences on the server. I would say classifying anything I have done or am doing as not being open to a discussion is a joke.

Andrew
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Old 04-19-2016, 10:58 AM   #22
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Disclaimer: I'm tired as hell but hyped up on coffee, so this post may or may not make sense.

In my opinion, it simply isn't feasible to create a reliable team-balancer for Onslaught. There are just too many variables to take into consideration in this game type. A PPH type balancer works well in DM or TAM/Freon, but there a several ways to get points in ONS, and several crucial qualities of a team player do not award points (communication, strategy, linking key vehicles when needed, knowing where to be and when, etc.) Additionally, playing styles and the wide range of map types (some tank dominated, some infantry dominated, etc) means that performance for any one player will vary depending on the map being played, and between-round balancing is disabled. Even if it was enabled, and set to only swap one or two players, there is a high probability that those switched to the losing team will just spec or leave anyway (sadly).

The question we need to ask ourselves is: are matches, on average, more balanced or more likely to be even with it enabled? I do not have any statistical data to answer this one way or the other. Perhaps we could disable the balancer for a bit and track match length and results to develop a baseline, then turn it back on and track results with each tweak or change.
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:13 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
I reviewed all of the comments you posted that I have added to this thread. I don't see any denigrating or sarcastic anything in any of it. Nor do I see an shitting over your ideas.

Also, my comments provide context here, where you are not in voice chat being difficult at EVERY CHANCE YOU GET when it comes to how terrible of an idea the balancer is, and how it should just go back to the broken ass way it was.




I never said only 2 or 3 people had an opinion on the balancer. I said 2 or 3 people have hated the balancer from day one.

You have hated the balancer since the beginning, for the idea, not the implementation. You have stated so repeatedly over the time it has been operation. We get it. I get it. I understand your point of view and don't agree, and will not likely change my mind to fuel ego or whatever is driving your desire to go back to the old and broken way.



Which I have also said, and there is good discussion about what is going on and what is being looked at. I have never claimed it was perfect, and actually would love to see it updated to work better.

As far as the people you mention... I would hope they would invest the time and speak their opinions to make the server more enjoyable for all. As you will see below, everyone you mention has their own account. The community can't evolve without people talking here about it, which I encourage.

Spike - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts. Also, he is one of the 3 people I mention in my post. Sometimes you are the bug, sometimes the windshield. Laughable.

Smoker - The balancer was heavily supported by Smoker here in the forums. He has been an active part of the discussion, and been fairly open in the group with his thoughts.

Vincent - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Xexx - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
GTKU - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Kronix - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
tres-gonads - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
McLovin - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Provert - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Anonymous - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.
Duh - Has an account here. And should chime in with his thoughts.

Sarge - (he hated it so much he quit playing here) - You know as well as I do that he used this as an excuse to leave. He was burned out on the game, the community or the whatever I don't really care. Towards the end he was whiny, abusive and an AH in game. Good riddance. Also, one of the people against the balancer from the start.

I have repeatedly stated that I want more people in forum to discuss the balancer, and any other server related topics to improve our experiences on the server. I would say classifying anything I have done or am doing as not being open to a discussion is a joke.

Andrew
I get switched as a bottom, and often cite wtf, but I play my heart out. I also in my early days here, had switched for what I thought were logical reasons, but abandoned that after threat of being banned. I understand people get frustrated and leave. I, too, am alone with bots against majority of humans, but I try. Not enough people on, I leave. It is frustrating, I come on to play alongside humans against humans. If I wanted bots, I can go locally static on my own. I think team-switching for self-ordained logical reasons is dangerous against house rules. Once enough people sign on, come back and have fun again. Trying to administrate fairness is a loosing proposition. I try to play nice and stay within the borders of expectations. Let people leave. They'll come back after feeling better.

Last edited by Sumugan; 04-19-2016 at 11:37 AM.. Reason: Wrong Topic, misread
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Old 04-19-2016, 11:24 AM   #24
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Wow, just wow. I'm not even going to get into how misguided, off-base and just completely wrong pretty much everything you just said is.

And you STILL have not contributed to the actual discussion at hand! THIS IS NOT ABOUT THE AUTO-BALANCER!!! This is about what constitutes unjustified team switching, such as what BoFox did for the selfish purpose of simply extending the match when it was NOT totally one-sided. Not once have you actually commented on that situation, except to say my idea of exercising common fucking courtesy and asking fellow players if they're OK with switching wouldn't fly with but a few people (which is also not true as I pointed out). Not one comment about whether you agree or disagree with what he did and whether it should or should not be allowed. People unjustifiably and selfishly team-switching mid-game has simply caused people to get frustrated and leave, and it should be addressed because it's becoming more frequent.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
As far as the people you mention... I would hope they would invest the time and speak their opinions to make the server more enjoyable for all. As you will see below, everyone you mention has their own account. The community can't evolve without people talking here about it, which I encourage.
This is apparently one topic where we agree. I sincerely hope that everyone I've heard gripe about the balancer in game chat will come here and either refute or corroborate my assertions. Especially those that have been texting #REMOVEBALANCER in game, and it's been more than a couple.

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Sarge - (he hated it so much he quit playing here) - You know as well as I do that he used this as an excuse to leave. He was burned out on the game, the community or the whatever I don't really care. Towards the end he was whiny, abusive and an AH in game. Good riddance. Also, one of the people against the balancer from the start.
I'm not going to pretend, as you do, to know there was any other motivation than the balancer for Sarge leaving, because he specifically stated, "I'll be back when the balancer is gone." I don't agree with him for leaving, but that's his choice. And I'm certainly not going to say good riddance to one of the better players that's been on this server.

And calling him whiny and abusive, well ain't that the pot calling the kettle black? I'll keep that comment in mind next time you once again repeatedly yell, "FUCK OFF" and "FUCK YOU" and cry about me using "over-powered vehicles" while I'm dominating you.
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:00 PM   #25
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I'm not going to pretend, as you do,
Yawn. You are boring me.

When you are done reading this I will provide a small quiz to make sure you read and understood it. Until then, I am done wasting my time talking to the wall. you.

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Old 04-19-2016, 12:27 PM   #26
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Smoker - The balancer was heavily supported by Smoker here in the forums. He has been an active part of the discussion, and been fairly open in the group with his thoughts.

This statement is false- I did not support the team balance program at all, I Frekkin initiated it through many Emails with Wormbo and the Admins (if you don't like the balancer you can blame me). We would not even have it at all if not for my push to bring it about and I am sick and tired of people saying it is broken, IT IS NOT BROKEN!!!!( THANKS AGAIN WORMBO AND ADMINS FOR YOUR HARD WORK) The problem is all the people that jump out and come back in a few minutes later or jump into a match in the middle, I have kept a notepad and a screen shot of the scoreboard after every game and the winning team usually has multiple late entries also some players stay in spectating mode till a slot opens with a heavy tier 1 player team count. Try taking screenshots for 2 days and you will see I am correct, like always!!!!!


Question?

Is it OK to team switch when your fellow player is auctioning you off with a mino?? I team switched the other day since you yourself Lagzilla begged the other team to take me and even offered the mino with me, I realize you were being your usual self but I bet it burned when we creamed you LOL, Also I only changed (without mino) after I saw the other team was 3 players down and instead of a teams command I gave Lagzilla his most fervent wish! . But I will be honest that I hated doing it because I hate team switchers and was only forced into it by Lagzilla.


Back to the subject-TEAM SWITCHING

Personally the only time I really ever have seen a need for a team switch is when the server is mostly empty and the teams command will not balance a 3 to 5 or 2 to 4 team split.


PS
LETS TRY AN EXPERIMENT- All of you over the next 2 days keep an eye on the scoreboard at the end of each match and pay close attention to the time log and then we can have a conversation on the team balance after you all have accrued some scientific data about the cause of unbalanced games.

Last edited by SMOKER; 04-19-2016 at 12:33 PM.. Reason: pith
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Old 04-19-2016, 12:54 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyo View Post

This whole discussion wasn't even about the auto-balancer, but since Lagzilla decided to interject it into the conversation as a petty way to attack me, I feel the need for a rebuttal. You see Lagzilla, I actually respect your point of view and once agreed that an auto-balancer was a good idea, in theory. But in practice it just doesn't seem to accomplish what it's intended to do in the eyes of more than just 2 or 3 payers. I'm all for fair matches, never once has anyone ever heard me say I like the teams being unbalanced. I can name off a few folks I played with the last couple nights that expressed their dislike at least once for the balancer because it often doesn't balance teams fairly. If I name you wrongly, apologies, going off memory here:
Spike
Smoker
Vincent
Xexx
GTKU
Kronix
tres-gonads
McLovin
Provert
Anonymous
Duh
Sarge (he hated it so much he quit playing here)

A few more than 3, and that's just what I can remember over the last 2 days. You're welcome to verify with any of them on their balancer opinions, and if I misrepresented anyone, I will publicly apologize to them.
Since so many people don't like the balancer, what if we removed it for two weeks, just to see if things are different. The server MOTD could even be changed to let people know what's going on.


About team switching, it would be nice if admins had the ability to switch people if the teams are unbalanced. We could also use a couple more admins to do that, and force maps after a crash.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:03 PM   #28
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Smoker - The balancer was heavily supported by Smoker here in the forums. He has been an active part of the discussion, and been fairly open in the group with his thoughts.

This statement is false- I did not support the team balance program at all, I Frekkin initiated it through many Emails with Wormbo and the Admins (if you don't like the balancer you can blame me). We would not even have it at all if not for my push to bring it about and I am sick and tired of people saying it is broken, IT IS NOT BROKEN!!!!( THANKS AGAIN WORMBO AND ADMINS FOR YOUR HARD WORK) The problem is all the people that jump out and come back in a few minutes later or jump into a match in the middle, I have kept a notepad and a screen shot of the scoreboard after every game and the winning team usually has multiple late entries also some players stay in spectating mode till a slot opens with a heavy tier 1 player team count. Try taking screenshots for 2 days and you will see I am correct, like always!!!!!
Did you? Seems like a post was made bringing up the topic with discussions in February of 2014. Link to OP. Now I know this thread was created a year and 2 months before you joined the conversation (and the forum,) but it was fairly active at the same time as your post "matches made even" post... from August... of 2015. Link

Also, this, from inside your thread from 2015:

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Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
This thread is a duplicated topic, more details are found here: http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthread.php?t=14402
I was actually paying you a compliment for being engaged, but since you need credit so badly I figured I would bring up that the discussion was occurring before you arrived to the forum.

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Question?

Is it OK to team switch when your fellow player is auctioning you off with a mino?? I team switched the other day since you yourself Lagzilla begged the other team to take me and even offered the mino with me, I realize you were being your usual self but I bet it burned when we creamed you LOL, Also I only changed (without mino) after I saw the other team was 3 players down and instead of a teams command I gave Lagzilla his most fervent wish! . But I will be honest that I hated doing it because I hate team switchers and was only forced into it by Lagzilla.
Losing was fine. I did not have to listen to you say the same thing 100x over and over so it worked out great. And you switched when the other team was one down, but nice try. And "Forced into it" is hysterical. Tell me another one, please!

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Old 04-19-2016, 01:06 PM   #29
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Since so many people don't like the balancer, what if we removed it for two weeks, just to see if things are different.
I am sure some will be quick to point out I am saying nothing is wrong, but, in the smallest words possible: I AM NOT SAYING IT AIN'T NEEDIN FIXIN. However, can one of the 12 people mentioned above maybe take a second to chime in before we take Enyo's sole word they are dissatisfied and want it removed?

The same idea went for when I was lobbying to have the mutator loaded, I wanted community discussion, and only a few people were engaged... leaving us all wondering how it would be accepted.

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Old 04-19-2016, 01:18 PM   #30
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I am sure some will be quick to point out I am saying nothing is wrong, but, in the smallest words possible: I AM NOT SAYING IT AIN'T NEEDIN FIXIN. However, can one of the 12 people mentioned above maybe take a second to chime in before we take Enyo's sole word they are dissatisfied and want it removed?

The same idea went for when I was lobbying to have the mutator loaded, I wanted community discussion, and only a few people were engaged... leaving us all wondering how it would be accepted.

Andrew
There's constant complaining about it in-game by people who rarely check the forums.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:24 PM   #31
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There's constant complaining about it in-game by people who rarely check the forums.
Finally, someone other than Enyo says ^^^ this. I am on a lot, and I do hear constant complaining... from the same small group of individuals... all who have accounts here. I wish some of the folks who don't frequent would and make their voice heard.

I am just super NOT excited by one or two people steering the direction of global changes on the server... Including me... Enyo, whoever.

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Old 04-19-2016, 01:42 PM   #32
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Thanks Lagzilla for giving everyone the definition of, well, you... as repeatedly evidenced in this discussion. Rather than contributing to the discussion of team switching, being a passive-aggressive troll is apparently your preferred method of communication with me. You want everyone to be more involved in discussions on this forum, but you refuse to actually discuss the topic of team switching in any meaningful way. Gee, I wonder why so many players refuse to come here and participate on a more regular basis. You try to get some clarification on something like this, and people start chiming in with snarky comments (on an unrelated topic, I might add) and this shit quickly spins out of control.

So, you want an inflammatory, troll-like comment? Sorry, I'm not passive-aggressive, just aggressive, so here ya go, enjoy...

You clearly suffer from the Dunning-Kruger Effect, nicely summarized here by John Cleese: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvVPdyYeaQU

Smoker, thanks for your input regarding team switching, again I think it's OK when there's few players and teams are badly unbalanced. BUT, if a team's one and only really good player is the one that wants to switch, that typically just as heavily throws the balance in favor of the team he switches to and pisses off the team he left. Again, is it really that much to ask for a player that wants to switch to make sure everyone involved is cool with it first?

On the balancer...
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The problem is all the people that jump out and come back in a few minutes later or jump into a match in the middle
Great point, and one I honestly didn't consider when I was originally in favor of implementing a balancer. This happens virtually every match I play in, the team makeup changes throughout the game frequently. There's no balancer in the world that can account for that, except by switching players around between matches. Mr. Dunning-Kruger himself is the only one I ever hear that likes and promotes that idea. Remember when the original iteration of the balancer did just that? Most everybody else hated it to the point it was removed.
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Old 04-19-2016, 01:53 PM   #33
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Yup, my posts are telling... Did you read them? Since you seem to think I am off topic, here is a post right before you started opening your mouth that I wrote that was on topic. It's odd you missed the relevant content, since you quoted me from this very post.

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Without more administrative support on the server I would strongly urge us to NOT remove the button.

If there are guidelines for when you can switch, then there should be a way to switch.

If we had more active admins on the server they could move players around on teams and reduce the need for the button.

I am always confused by why there are a few people who play on Omni that insist a fair fight is not possible more frequently, and little desire to try to even up matches. One sided battles empty the server, frustrate people and eventually lead to people finding something else to do with their free time. I would think the small stroke gained from winning a one sided round could be sacrificed for the community and good of the game/server/players.

And by a few, I mean like the same 3 people.

Andrew
Feel free to respond Enyo, I won't.

My stance is fairly clear, and anyone else who wants to have an intelligent discussion on the topic I would love to engage in it.

Andrew
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Old 04-19-2016, 02:15 PM   #34
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Just for the record, when I was having internet issues being tethered to my 4g hotspot from my phone and lagging out and dropping out to try and come back in, that wasn't me trying to unbalance or purposefully to spite the game nor my teammates at the time. Sometimes, like me, I have a wife who really disapproves me having fun with y'all and when I may exit to perform a task, it is just that. Very inconvenient, to want to rejoin and be considered a team-switcher. I apologize for any frustration I may have caused in re-entering intermittently.
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Old 04-19-2016, 03:54 PM   #35
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Ugh, this has gone completely off the rails. I'll take part of the blame for that, so I'll try to steer it back on track. The whole point of this post was to point out people taking liberties with the allowance for switching to a losing team, and basically violating the "don't be a dick" rule, as referenced by Dimshade in the original discussion about all this...

http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthread.php?t=14402&page=2

Unfortunately, hardly anybody who plays regularly will ever actually read these long posts, and the switching exception is not explicitly stated in the rules, which I bet most people have read.

I don't mind someone switching after one team gets hammered for 2 rounds. What's bothersome to me is when the winning team wins over a couple of drawn out overtime rounds and one of their best players switches. Then the former losing team goes on to completely slaughter the former winning team. Exactly what happened in both scenarios I gave. How is that by any standard fair? This happens more frequently than it should and it's frustrating to be on that formerly winning team. That's when people start leaving the game, making the balance even worse.

Last edited by Enyo; 04-20-2016 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:26 PM   #36
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Personally, I hate bots more than anything. I'd do anything just to get rid of one bot, even if my own team is winning. If there's one bot on the other side, and zero bots on my team (while my team has 1 more player than the other team), I'd be more than happy to switch over to the other team to do away with that bot.

Oftentimes, a bot is worse than an idling player who is AFK, as the bot sometimes takes the best vehicles and then muck it up. And then the bot goes to the node that needs to be built, but just wanders around, refusing to touch the new node.

Well, point aside, I concur that it was not ok for me the last time I teamswitched as it did upset some other players. So once again, I'm not going to do that again without asking first if it's ok with everybody. It was just a spur-of-the-moment decision when I checked the scoreboard and realized that there was this friggin' bot that I hated more than anything else (and the last-minute chance to enjoy one more round on a new map WITHOUT freaking bots).

CarpeDiem said it's ok to teamswitch to balance it out (in another thread on the same topic), hence the presence of the team-switching button on this server mod - for the same reasons Terminator stated here in this thread. However, I'll make sure to refrain my biggest brain-fart of the year by practicing some common courtesy by asking first (which I did not do). Apologies to the guys who didn't appreciate me extending the map rounds which was already a pretty long match now that I think about it.

Enyo, may I kindly ask you to take it easy with Lagzilla. I don't think he's trying to be too serious with you. Our minds give life to abstract symbolism, hence the life and seriousness of symbolism! Off a tangent, I went and am gone, hardly able to come back!

Hardspike - thanks for the kind conversation. I appreciate you not being mad at me, and am glad it's cool. My objective is to ENJOY (just add an "J" to Enyo, and it's Enjoy! Hope my brain-fart didn't stink too much when I didn't have the courtesy to ask first. Just try to tame GuythatkillsU and keep him quiet when he rears his own unholy tentacles, can ya? Nah, never mind if it was too much for me to ask.
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:29 PM   #37
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There's constant complaining about it in-game by people who rarely check the forums.
*cough* Blackwood *cough*
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Old 04-19-2016, 05:47 PM   #38
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Did you? Seems like a post was made bringing up the topic with discussions in February of 2014. Link to OP. Now I know this thread was created a year and 2 months before you joined the conversation (and the forum,) but it was fairly active at the same time as your post "matches made even" post... from August... of 2015. Link


Lagzilla I'm done with you for these reasons

1. your comment about the balance is completely off and showing a post that went nowhere still does not negate the FACTS that I traded emails with Wormbo Pi and Carpe at one time and pushed hard for the balancer and you know what it was implemented that week, WOW!!!!! Thanks again Wormbo!! in fact the original post of Matches made even starts with several emails between me and wormbo here it is to remind you!!!!Since your completely wrong


Fellow players here is a conversation Wormbo and I have been having and we now want to get the views of everyone!

SMOKER:
Question?
Is there a way to make the server assign a new player based on node count?? Like if Red has 70% of the nodes the new player is assigned to Blue and vice versa?? I have no idea if there is a way for the server to see that upon new player arrival??

Wormbo:
The server sees everything and has the authority to assign teams. However, there's currently no connection between the two concepts.

BTW: I recommend always starting threads about things like this.

SMOKER:
I agree Sir on the Forum, I was really wondering as you said there is no connection between the two concepts, but can it be done? is there a way to connect both concepts. I do not want to start a Forum discussion on something that cannot be done at all or would be a huge amount of time to create. So I guess the question is, Is this possible to do? and is it easy to do or is it so complicated it would take hours to code??

Wormbo:
If something takes only hours to code, it counts as "easy". And considering I already created "team progress" logic for Even Match, this request may very well fall in that category.

SO YOUR THOUGHTS PLAYERS????

BAM!!!! Seems like you just didn't have the awesomeness that is SMOKER to get your plan enacted from a few years ago, let me know if you need any of my awesomeness to rub off on ya!!! BUAHAHAHA

2. You wanna know what I am really tired of Lagzilla? Watching you bitch like a douche bag about a player and what they did to kill you when I have seen you do the same things over and over and over and over and over and over and over again, this makes you extra special in my book


3. Oh REEEAAAALLLLYYY you didn't mind I switched teams? You bitched about it and even over 30 minutes later when you lost you still posted at the end of the match "team switcher FTW" or something of that sort I remember seeing it on VincenT's video of the game . But don't ever lie and said it didn't bother you because it obviously did to make you post that at the end of the match. let alone videos with you crying about it on that teams chat, Enyo and I are so far in your head LAgzilla it really is funny!

4. Lagzilla, in the end you and your antics tire me




To the rest of my fellow players=

In the words of the Awesomeness that is Colbye "I Love You Guys"
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Old 04-19-2016, 08:00 PM   #39
Lagzilla
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Bad link

http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthr...p=14402#page=2
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Old 04-20-2016, 08:53 AM   #40
Enyo
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Try this...

http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthread.php?t=14402&page=2
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