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Old 08-17-2015, 03:19 PM   #21
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I actually did play a few rounds on CEONSS (Omni ping wouldn't cut it for me) and got switched from time to time, probably because players left.
Then again, the server was quite full and no bots were involved. I'll have to review the bot-related code (or lack thereof) anyway, so please report switching fails as detailed as possible, so I know what to look for. EvenMatch does create log entries (even more if you enable debug mode), which may help clear up what it intended to do.
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Old 08-17-2015, 05:41 PM   #22
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Just got back from another Randomizer match with the new balancer. What is the green arrow where the VS used to be represent? Strength of team/speed of core drain?

Anyway, there were a few upset players and lots of WTFs going on, those who were switched, switched back themselves to their original teams, but the balancer caught that.

On a non full server, this new balancer should go over very well with our players!
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Old 08-17-2015, 06:51 PM   #23
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I just watched it switch the top scorer in two different maps. This will need to change as its pissing people off. I know it would me if i was doing well, clicking with the team, then get switched to a team that is half ass trying because its unbalanced. I would leave (as did the 2 that got switched)... no, this is not the answer.

Can we go back to the way it was? Hardspike said it best 'sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield'. Grin and bare it and next time your team might be more balanced.
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:18 PM   #24
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Yeah balancing mid-game is pissing a lot of people off. The lead scorer last game got switched twice.

Is there some sort of threshold setting for the balancer? It seems like whenever one team got even a slight advantage, it starts trying to balance people.

Maybe if we could just have balancing between maps it would be better.
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:50 PM   #25
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So this "EvenMatch_Va27" file is infinitely downloading from the redirect past 100%, even after I cleared my cache and tried again.
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Old 08-17-2015, 07:57 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo K View Post
So this "EvenMatch_Va27" file is infinitely downloading from the redirect past 100%, even after I cleared my cache and tried again.
It stopped for me at 335% complete..
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:00 PM   #27
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I just watched a horribly unbalance match go awry. One team was dominating so bad, the team won 2 to 0, but the balancer kicked in and basically cried mulligan!, we played it again, 0 to 0, as if no one team just scored
I'm not even going to play. Some one let me know if its ever switched back.
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Old 08-17-2015, 08:56 PM   #28
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It froze up the server after the end of a round.

Edit: Is this mutator even necessary? Did someone's boipussy bleed too much?

Last edited by Anonymous[Lolz]; 08-17-2015 at 09:12 PM..
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Old 08-17-2015, 10:59 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sarge View Post
I just watched a horribly unbalance match go awry. One team was dominating so bad, the team won 2 to 0, but the balancer kicked in and basically cried mulligan!, we played it again, 0 to 0, as if no one team just scored
I'm not even going to play. Some one let me know if its ever switched back.

This is exactly the best part of the balancer. If you get smashed in a wholly uneven match it starts the round over so you can play the map with a better balance of teams. Whats the harm? You get your win, and it gives a balanced second chance?

The only change I would like to see is that the balancing ONLY happens at rounds end. That stops the anger created by mid round switches...

This thread is a duplicated topic, more details are found here: http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthread.php?t=14402


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Old 08-17-2015, 11:08 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz] View Post
It froze up the server after the end of a round.

Edit: Is this mutator even necessary? Did someone's boipussy bleed too much?
I would assume so, since it has been discussed for over a year and several of us have asked for more balance to rounds.

Thanks for bringing such enlightened commentary to the discussion.

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Old 08-17-2015, 11:15 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sarge View Post
Can we go back to the way it was? Hardspike said it best 'sometimes your the bug, sometimes your the windshield'. Grin and bare it and next time your team might be more balanced.
He did indeed say it, sadly, it is a crappy view to take on the situation.

Here is the big problem pre-balancer... You could go a whole night (or more) with one unbalanced round after another. Sunday was a fine example. I was on blue almost all night, and we lost almost all night, and 80%+ of the matches were not just victories, they were one sided sweeps. How long before people just don't want to play anymore because they are always getting bowled over?

What is your argument to fixing woefully unbalanced matches and evening it up?

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Old 08-18-2015, 12:38 AM   #32
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I don't know about this. I'm trying to keep an open mind. Tonight was the pits. On Magic Isle our team captured most of the map. Shortly thereafter I got switched to the other side and suffered the beat-down that I helped create. Lots of players had similar experiences. Like Capt Spaulding. He was the dominating player on Nevermore. As his Red team was taking the core for the win he got switched.

There was too much switching during the matches.

Also, players have to remember (or be reminded) to switch their team-chat (v 1 1 3).

I do appreciate Wormbo and other's efforts here. As I said I'll try to keep an open mind. But initial reaction is not positive. If every map goes 5 rounds that's not a good thing.
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Old 08-18-2015, 12:57 AM   #33
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Okay, I'm not sure why it would switch the top scorer, because there's code that sahould prevent exactly that.

The mutator really has multiple somewhat independent features for balancing.
One is the team shuffling at start-up. You can disable all other features and leave this one on to prevent the same players being on the same over-powered team all night. Closely related is the restart with score sets after a short first round, which also includes team shuffling.
Next there's a feature that makes sure joining players are assigned teams not according to their preference, but according to which team currently needs players.
And finally there's the mid-game auto-balancing that everyone currently is complaining about. I admit this one needs lots of work, but maybe it'd be worth going back to a manual (on-request) approach for that.
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:06 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormbo View Post
Okay, I'm not sure why it would switch the top scorer, because there's code that sahould prevent exactly that.

The mutator really has multiple somewhat independent features for balancing.
One is the team shuffling at start-up. You can disable all other features and leave this one on to prevent the same players being on the same over-powered team all night. Closely related is the restart with score sets after a short first round, which also includes team shuffling.
Next there's a feature that makes sure joining players are assigned teams not according to their preference, but according to which team currently needs players.
And finally there's the mid-game auto-balancing that everyone currently is complaining about. I admit this one needs lots of work, but maybe it'd be worth going back to a manual (on-request) approach for that.
Wormbo, I do want to say thank you for your work on this. It is appreciated! You don't even play this game, but are still willing to help our community out with these mods. Thank you, sincerely.

Andrew
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hardspike View Post
I do appreciate Wormbo and other's efforts here. As I said I'll try to keep an open mind. But initial reaction is not positive. If every map goes 5 rounds that's not a good thing.
Critical note here. Ceonns does this differently and that is where I have experienced this balancing before.
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Old 08-18-2015, 07:59 AM   #36
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Cool, feedback. Good. Sorry, I wasn't around last night to retool stuff 'live' but that's how it goes I guess. It sounds like the mid-game shuffling is an issue and we should turn it off. The download % going awry is my fault, I didn't upload the package to the redirect (and still haven't) so the % should go past 100 every time it downloads (so, once per person). I'm sure Carpe will fix that eventually since I've misplaced my redirect credentials

Code:
ignore team preference: True
Announce team change: True 
Connecting players balance teams: True
Randomly start with sides swapped: True
Shuffle teams from previous match: True
Activation delay: 9999
Forced rebalance delay: 9999
Minimum desired round length (minutes): 7
Small team progress threshold: 0.5
Soft rebalance delay: 9999
Switch to winner progress limit: 0.7
Valuable player ranking %: 0.75
I think these changes will disable mid-game rebalancing but keep pre-game shuffling & auto-restart short matches.

Wormbo, this look correct?

anyone else, 7 minute 'fast match' setting sound reasonable?
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Old 08-18-2015, 10:54 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pi View Post
anyone else, 7 minute 'fast match' setting sound reasonable?
Is there a way to exclude certain maps from the fast match setting? As it stands, we almost always have to play an extra round of any F&F map. Not that it's a huge issue, since it's pretty fast anyway. Just tossing it out there.
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:04 PM   #38
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Eh.... even if it is switching the top scorer I have to say so what. This type of team balancing takes place all the time in the far more competitive gametype of Freon/TAM. Sounds like more of people problem than a mutator problem to me.

Quote:
If every map goes 5 rounds that's not a good thing.
Especially since there is a timer on how long a game can last before the voice exploit crashes the server... Ideally, pre-ot wins would only grant 1 point and we could reduce the win score to 2. That would ensure at least 2 rounds but a maximum of 3, which should also prevent server crashes since the maps should finish before the exploit comes to fruition.
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Old 08-18-2015, 01:28 PM   #39
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After sleeping on this how about limiting it to two features:
1) balance the teams at the beginning of a match
2) one balance of the teams after the completion of the first round, if needed.
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Old 08-18-2015, 02:05 PM   #40
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Pi: Yes, that should prevent mid-game balancing, although I should add an explicit option for that.
dimshade: Not possible, and I'm not sure it's worth adding that feature.
hardspike: So essentially you mean the short-round rematch, but without score reset?

Ping-back summary of requests from CEONSS:
More "key player" criteria (haviong super weapon and/or amp), more detailed debug mode (and enable it by default), better naming and description of bConnectingPlayersBalanceTeams, embed the Linux server emitter crash fix in the mutator to benefit from whitelisting.
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