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Old 06-18-2014, 09:58 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by Wormbo View Post

Apart from the Hoverbadger, I'd like to implement two seats for each of the Badger variations. So the wanted list contains the Ion Badger, Stealth Badger, Bio Badger and Link Badger? Or do I need to put the Fire Badger on the list as well?
I'd say the flame Badger is sufficient and you don't need to do a FireBadger. It's unique and not a direct Badger port of the larger tank.

Ion Badger: Gunner controls the Ion tank part. That would really make this Badger not overpowering. Driver can have a weak minigun like the regular badger.
Link Badger: Driver definitely needs to control the Link beam. The gunner can be a weak green laser or maybe one of those projectile models you were showcasing. Perhaps a rocket that heals things?

The Stealth Badger and BioBadger are fine as is regarding firepower and seating.
If you do decide to make a Link Badger and BioBadger, 600 health would be fine as opposed to the 1k health they currently have.


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What is the difference between the fire badger and flame badger? the Flame Badger on Deserted Sands seems pathetic.
DesertedSands? The only one I know of is the FlameBadger I put on Severance. It's pretty effective with two people in it. If you're alone, you should probably hop in the HoverBadger instead.
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Old 06-19-2014, 09:01 AM   #42
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I'd say the flame Badger is sufficient and you don't need to do a FireBadger. It's unique and not a direct Badger port of the larger tank.

Ion Badger: Gunner controls the Ion tank part. That would really make this Badger not overpowering. Driver can have a weak minigun like the regular badger.
Link Badger: Driver definitely needs to control the Link beam. The gunner can be a weak green laser or maybe one of those projectile models you were showcasing. Perhaps a rocket that heals things?

The Stealth Badger and BioBadger are fine as is regarding firepower and seating.
If you do decide to make a Link Badger and BioBadger, 600 health would be fine as opposed to the 1k health they currently have.




DesertedSands? The only one I know of is the FlameBadger I put on Severance. It's pretty effective with two people in it. If you're alone, you should probably hop in the HoverBadger instead.
Ahh gotcha. I suck at driving Badgers. Heck, I can squeeze any Leviathan variant into a tight corner but I can't drive a Badger to save my life. I run into everything.
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Old 06-19-2014, 10:59 AM   #43
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Ahh gotcha. I suck at driving Badgers. Heck, I can squeeze any Leviathan variant into a tight corner but I can't drive a Badger to save my life. I run into everything.
So you're a big rig hauler. Some of us are race car drivers !
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Old 06-19-2014, 01:45 PM   #44
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So you're a big rig hauler. Some of us are race car drivers !
Rumor has it that the fascination doesn't apply to just big vehicles.
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Old 06-19-2014, 04:28 PM   #45
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Rumor has it that the fascination doesn't apply to just big vehicles.
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Old 06-19-2014, 06:56 PM   #46
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Old 06-21-2014, 02:04 AM   #47
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Ahh gotcha. I suck at driving Badgers. Heck, I can squeeze any Leviathan variant into a tight corner but I can't drive a Badger to save my life. I run into everything.
Dude, they drive at 1/16 MPH and turn quickly. Of course you can stick it anywhere... and I wish you would!

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Old 09-05-2014, 12:56 PM   #48
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I've decided for a Link Badger passenger weapon now. Since the gunner will control the small turret, I made it work similar to the UT1 Pulsegun. Primary mode is a rapid-fire projectile, but I increased its speed to be still very useful at medium to long range. Since it's a vehicle weapon, there's also a small splash damage radius. Secondary mode is the pulse beam without linking or healing abilities. The beam trace has a width, so you could actually try "swiping down" incoming AVRiL rockets. (I'll definitely teach higher-skill bots to do that. ) Damage will be 18 * 10 shots per second for the projectiles and 180/s for the beam. Both modes will receive a damage boost of 50% or 100% if the Link Badger is linked to by one or two other players, be it with Linkguns, Link Tanks or Link Badgers.

Oh, and I've "hacked" the minigun model's skeleton to allow the barrel to actually rotate now. Just a minor thing, but looks and feels much better.
And I've also added tickrate independence to the rapid-fire weapons to prevent different actual damage per time depending on the server tick rate. (Yes, that's actually affects Onslaught vehicle weapons.)
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:04 AM   #49
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Just wondering about a few Link Badger modifications...
How does the original Link Badger's damage output feel compared to other vehicles?
Should I reduce the beam range of the Link Badger?
Since the gunner's pulse turret will be quite powerful (though without linking capabilities), should the driver's turret be toned down to focus mostly on linking?
Link Badger chaining - could this be a thing? (Original Link Tank code doesn't allow it, as far as I can tell. A Link Tank/Badger's link is counted as only one link, ignoring subsequent links.)
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Old 09-14-2014, 03:03 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Wormbo View Post
Just wondering about a few Link Badger modifications...
How does the original Link Badger's damage output feel compared to other vehicles?
Should I reduce the beam range of the Link Badger?
Since the gunner's pulse turret will be quite powerful (though without linking capabilities), should the driver's turret be toned down to focus mostly on linking?
Link Badger chaining - could this be a thing? (Original Link Tank code doesn't allow it, as far as I can tell. A Link Tank/Badger's link is counted as only one link, ignoring subsequent links.)
I'd say to keep the Link Badger's beam damage and range the same, but have no alt-fire for the driver. I don't see anything wrong with Link Badger chaining. It would reward successfully being able to hijack an enemy Link Badger.
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Old 09-16-2014, 07:26 PM   #51
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Wormbo, the new badgers seem to work well, I don't notice the falling though the map problems. Can you please tell me why the mini gun was toned down on them?

Binger has already compared it to trying to kill vehicles and people with the assault rifle, and I have to agree with him. Could you up the damage on it to match what it is on the original badger?
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:40 PM   #52
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Wormbo, the new badgers seem to work well, I don't notice the falling though the map problems. Can you please tell me why the mini gun was toned down on them?

Binger has already compared it to trying to kill vehicles and people with the assault rifle, and I have to agree with him. Could you up the damage on it to match what it is on the original badger?
Yes, I like your work Wormbo and I'm grateful for the things you do for the game but I REALLY don't like the weaker gun on the Badger. That was my favorite vehicle. If you want to make it less effective maybe take out the cannon turret.
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Old 09-17-2014, 06:59 AM   #53
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The weaker Minigun is essentially caused by me using the wrong reference implementation. The standalone Badgers package used the same damage values. I already discussed it with Turbo K: Many of the embedded Badgers do not reduce the damage output of the minigun against vehicles. I'm very much against that, because it's illogical. Therefore I proposed a different solution:
Against players the minigun does about 200 damage per second and against vehicles and nodes about 115 damage per second. I could imagine upgrading the grenade damage against vehicles as well.

The Badger minigun implementation used in most maps now has 150 damage per second against everything. The grenade has 250 damage per shot against everything, corresponding to about 105 damage per second.
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Old 09-17-2014, 07:25 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wormbo View Post
The weaker Minigun is essentially caused by me using the wrong reference implementation. The standalone Badgers package used the same damage values. I already discussed it with Turbo K: Many of the embedded Badgers do not reduce the damage output of the minigun against vehicles. I'm very much against that, because it's illogical. Therefore I proposed a different solution:
Against players the minigun does about 200 damage per second and against vehicles and nodes about 115 damage per second. I could imagine upgrading the grenade damage against vehicles as well.

The Badger minigun implementation used in most maps now has 150 damage per second against everything. The grenade has 250 damage per shot against everything, corresponding to about 105 damage per second.
I'm not sure if I understand all of this. From what I gather, the new badger miniguns do:
200 per second to players on foot
115 per second vehicles and nodes

The old buggy fall thought the map badgers do:
150 per second to players on foot
150 per second vehicles and nodes

Is this correct?

In addition, you don't want to change the minigun on the new ones becasue it is too hard/time consuming correct?

The solution your proposing is to leave it all as is and up the grenade damage on the badger from 250 to yet to be determined number?

If I am reading it all correctly and this is the case, you won't like my answer, I would still prefer to have the mini guns do 150 damage to everything, as I use the grenades every once in a while and they do not have the ranger of a gun. (Unless you were to up the damage on them to 2000 )
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Old 12-11-2016, 02:31 PM   #55
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I did a test on the new ArcticJunkyard. These numbers aren't precise but I would say accurate to at least a half a second. I did each test at least 3 times. This is the minigun on the MkII Badger on A-JunkV3 vs the Badger on A-JunkV2 used on 3 different vehicles. Reverse times are when I used the minigun on those vehicles to kill the Badger.

Centaur 500hp
Old = 4 secs / MKII = 11 secs / Reverse = 3.5 secs

Goliath (II) 800 hp
Old = 6 secs / MKII = 18 secs / Reverse = 9.5 secs

Ion Tank 900 hp
Old = 6.5 secs / MKII = 20 secs / Reverse = 9.5 secs

The Centaur had a slight advantage against the old Badger. Now it's not even close. 20 seconds to kill an Ion Tank. If you don't believe me do the test yourself. I know someone might say that the Badger has a second seat but the majority of the time there is only one person in the Badger and many other vehicles also have second seats. For instance the main gun on the Goliath doesn't need 9.5 seconds to kill a Badger. For me this about a vehicle that was the same for like 8 years then suddenly got extremely nerfed. I hate to criticize your work Wormbo, you've done so much for this community and for a server that, afaik, you don't even play on, but Please put the damage values back to what they were. You did some very good things with the Badger but now it is ridiculously under-powered. Please just put it back to what it was. It was one of the most balanced community vehicles there out there.
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Old 12-11-2016, 04:53 PM   #56
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I'm no coder but from what I can tell both the old and MkII Badger miniguns have a fire rate of .1 and damage of 13, which should be 130 dps, but the Badger MKII minigun damage type is inheriting the VehicleDamageScaling=0.360000 of the DamTypeONSChainGun. This means a value of 46.8 dps which jives with my tests. The old Badger minigun bypasses the DamTypeONSChainGun and comes straight from VehicleDamageType which has no VehicleDamageScaling.

Wormbo, how are you getting your 200/115 dps numbers?
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Old 12-12-2016, 01:29 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Binger View Post
I did a test on the new ArcticJunkyard. These numbers aren't precise but I would say accurate to at least a half a second. I did each test at least 3 times. This is the minigun on the MkII Badger on A-JunkV3 vs the Badger on A-JunkV2 used on 3 different vehicles. Reverse times are when I used the minigun on those vehicles to kill the Badger.

Centaur 500hp
Old = 4 secs / MKII = 11 secs / Reverse = 3.5 secs

Goliath (II) 800 hp
Old = 6 secs / MKII = 18 secs / Reverse = 9.5 secs

Ion Tank 900 hp
Old = 6.5 secs / MKII = 20 secs / Reverse = 9.5 secs

The Centaur had a slight advantage against the old Badger. Now it's not even close. 20 seconds to kill an Ion Tank. If you don't believe me do the test yourself. I know someone might say that the Badger has a second seat but the majority of the time there is only one person in the Badger and many other vehicles also have second seats. For instance the main gun on the Goliath doesn't need 9.5 seconds to kill a Badger. For me this about a vehicle that was the same for like 8 years then suddenly got extremely nerfed. I hate to criticize your work Wormbo, you've done so much for this community and for a server that, afaik, you don't even play on, but Please put the damage values back to what they were. You did some very good things with the Badger but now it is ridiculously under-powered. Please just put it back to what it was. It was one of the most balanced community vehicles there out there.
Wow... that is a major decrease in damage output. Wasn't the purpose of the MKII badger to keep from falling through the map upon exiting the vehicle? If so, why was the damage decreased? I agree, increase the damage output to the original badger.

This is how I feel about the bio mutator against the Kraken/Tiamat. The problem that I have with that is it rolls the player's screen upon taking damage from the secondary fire on the Bio Tank or a glob from a player on foot with DD. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't roll the screen but the fact is, it does roll the screen and then you waste time by trying to correct it.
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Old 12-12-2016, 03:20 PM   #58
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Wow... that is a major decrease in damage output. Wasn't the purpose of the MKII badger to keep from falling through the map upon exiting the vehicle? If so, why was the damage decreased? I agree, increase the damage output to the original badger.

This is how I feel about the bio mutator against the Kraken/Tiamat. The problem that I have with that is it rolls the player's screen upon taking damage from the secondary fire on the Bio Tank or a glob from a player on foot with DD. I wouldn't have a problem with it if it didn't roll the screen but the fact is, it does roll the screen and then you waste time by trying to correct it.
Rolled screen even effects you after you spawn back. Often times I'm upside down and have a heck of a time getting fixed.
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Old 12-12-2016, 03:51 PM   #59
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Rolled screen even effects you after you spawn back. Often times I'm upside down and have a heck of a time getting fixed.
How do you fix that? Esp. when you are still inside the vehicle? I mean leaving it is no option.
When I respawn the best thing for me was just to press fire with multiple weapons.
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Old 12-12-2016, 05:42 PM   #60
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Aim down and fire the shield gun.
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