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Old 01-01-2020, 10:50 AM   #1
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UT2k4 Working on a new version of Minus
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I know, I know, we need another Minus, just like we need another JY...


But, for me personally, there's a few annoying things about Minus (I think based an the Kamek version).


1. I hate PPCs on this map, they spam from hiding constantly -- I've removed them -- replaced PPC with Hurricane (not sure on this thoughts?)

2. Dragon Camping above 8/9 -- I've added jumppads at 8/9 to the roof of the building...this should make the dragon get higher to bomb infantry--exposing them to centaurs/turrets, or stay low and fight foot soldiers.
3. Replaced the painters (that never work for me ) behind the boxes at 1/2 with old fashioned deemers.
4. Enjoyed the power of the nexis at 6, but that's too much, so replaced the two cobras with a Nova and an Alligator. Makes 6 more worthwhile to build.



Lastly, I wanted to add/change a couple more vehicle load outs and I am looking for suggestions?


I am thinking perhaps a flier at 10/11 (again to counter dragon camping). It can't be an OP flier like Falcon, thought about Pheonix but that's got too much range. Maybe a wasp (good for close up Mino killing in the dognuts spot)? Or one of the manta variants -- Windblade? Wyvern is probably too fast for the size of the map. Maybe Banshee?


I also think I could add Levi/Tiamat/Kraken or shocker somewhere (Maybe 1/2)?


Thoughts?
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Old 01-01-2020, 01:41 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by {glr}pooty View Post
I know, I know, we need another Minus, just like we need another JY...


But, for me personally, there's a few annoying things about Minus (I think based an the Kamek version).


1. I hate PPCs on this map, they spam from hiding constantly -- I've removed them -- replaced PPC with Hurricane (not sure on this thoughts?)

2. Dragon Camping above 8/9 -- I've added jumppads at 8/9 to the roof of the building...this should make the dragon get higher to bomb infantry--exposing them to centaurs/turrets, or stay low and fight foot soldiers.
3. Replaced the painters (that never work for me ) behind the boxes at 1/2 with old fashioned deemers.
4. Enjoyed the power of the nexis at 6, but that's too much, so replaced the two cobras with a Nova and an Alligator. Makes 6 more worthwhile to build.



Lastly, I wanted to add/change a couple more vehicle load outs and I am looking for suggestions?


I am thinking perhaps a flier at 10/11 (again to counter dragon camping). It can't be an OP flier like Falcon, thought about Pheonix but that's got too much range. Maybe a wasp (good for close up Mino killing in the dognuts spot)? Or one of the manta variants -- Windblade? Wyvern is probably too fast for the size of the map. Maybe Banshee?


I also think I could add Levi/Tiamat/Kraken or shocker somewhere (Maybe 1/2)?


Thoughts?

1) agree with removing PPC. Not sure Hurricane is best replacement though considering its issues. I do like the idea of a laser capable tank to help take out dragons.

2) Random thoughts.... The jump pad is cool, perhaps a teleporter might be an option? The dragon camper would be able to block the teleporter from people coming up, but would have to open it up if they wanted to drop bombs on the node. That way having a dragon ready at that node is still a good offensive option but this removes the cheapness of it? Either way I'm curious to see how this changes the dynamic of the game, because with people able to get on that building, they'll be able to shoot flyers camping on most buildings. Also can you shoot node 4 on foot from the top of that building? Maybe just putting the gas station roof over the node could be another idea.

3) How about the mega nukes from that one dria variant? The ones with the mushroom cloud and fallout. No reason other than it's awesome.

4) This could be a fun reward variant here. Yeah the nexis is a bit much. Maybe a curveball like 4 mantas appear? Or two tiamats? A second mino? Easy enough to kill but still have an "oh crap" factor for the other team.
Another angle would be some kind of vehicles that can make a mad dash to the enemy primary 4/7 sort of like in Tanks A Lot where you need to get the job done quick. Maybe the self-destructing nuke scorpion from Gunshop would be cool to race down that ditch and make the corner before the enemies take down 6?

5) Tough call on 10/11. I like the link badger from badgermeup. Whatever is here should be something that helps with controlling 8/9.


I dont like the idea of too many flyers on this map, it would totally change the dynamic and make most tanks sitting ducks. Perhaps introducing more variants of hellbenders or scorpions? Nitro vehicles might be a good alternative way to get around quick other than flyers.


As far as vehicle rollout, this could go many ways but I do like having shield tanks on the second floor near the core (the EONS ones that can heal themselves). It's a good last ditch defense. Also super helpful for driving around to 1/2 to get your 8/9 back. This is an unpopular opinion but I'd even like to have a turtle spawn on 2nd floor of the core for all of this to make comebacks more possible. Also to make the "assault on the core" part of the match more of an event, rather than just a couple glory shots from an ion or mino.

Also a jump pad on the core to get to the building to stop dragon campers would be good.

Currently once the core opens up in this map it's pretty much game over. I think the parking garage is a cool building and it'd be fun to bring the action into it a little more.
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Old 01-02-2020, 10:17 AM   #3
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Quote:
Maybe the self-destructing nuke scorpion from Gunshop would be cool to race down that ditch

Yep. That's the Nova.


Quote:
lso can you shoot node 4 on foot from the top of that building?

Have to check. We already get a few building campers who sit up there and snipe, paint, etc. So having an extra flier to take them out would be helpful...but it can't be too fast (wyvern), too powerful (falcon). I am curious to see how it would play with some more fliers...most raptor/manta variants can't take a single tank hit, and with so many Goliath IIs and centaurs..I don't think they'd change the balance too much.


I do like the idea of the mega nukes (I think they are like RMD deemers) with the big cloud, just because they look cool.





Part of me wants one version that's closer to "stock" with just a couple of changes...


And another version that's more radical...more fliers, more top of building play.
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Old 01-02-2020, 01:11 PM   #4
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Part of me wants one version that's closer to "stock" with just a couple of changes...

And another version that's more radical...more fliers, more top of building play.
The newly added EVO version of Minus is already mostly stock vehicles with a mino. It's an OK version of the map, but not a huge fan of having a mino on an otherwise stock map with nothing to counter it other than someone skilled with the goo gun and a manta.

You know I would be perfectly happy if you added a falcon to Minus, but I think that partly may be why you don't want to. And being a big fan of flyers over slow-ass tanks, I'd love to see some more flyers on this map. I understand your feelings about the falcon, but please don't start adding plain raptors and mantas... they're useless against non-stock vehicles.

I'd recommend replacing the core hammerhead with something like a wasp. Hammerheads are so buggy when ejecting you have to bail with 200 health still in it to avoid dying. And if you're afraid a wasp might be too much, you could use the series II version of it that fires slower. Wasps also only have something like 300 health and have limited firing range, so definitely weaker than a falcon.

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I am thinking perhaps a flier at 10/11 (again to counter dragon camping). It can't be an OP flier like Falcon, thought about Pheonix but that's got too much range. Maybe a wasp (good for close up Mino killing in the dognuts spot)? Or one of the manta variants -- Windblade? Wyvern is probably too fast for the size of the map. Maybe Banshee?
I like this idea a lot, and I like the jump pad addition too. If your team's dragon is MIA because some dumbass flew off in another direction with it, or it just hasn't re-spawned yet, it's extremely difficult to get 8/9 back with a dragon camping it. A wasp would work fine at 10/11, they're maneuverable enough to fight with a dragon. Or, a good idea might be a mirage raptor, the one from MagicIsle with the minigun primary fire. It's great for countering flyers, but weak against ground troops and tanks, so it's not too OP.

You could also consider the pulse traitor, the green manta that pulls flyers toward it, it could pull the dragon right off the rooftop when it peeks out. Would love to see the pulse traitor on more maps, and this would be a good one for it. It's weak against heavy vehicles like tanks, so there's plenty to counter it on Minus. Yet another good option would be the goo/bio raptor from MagicIsle... it's got really strong rockets that could take out the dragon and it would be another good mino deterrent.

Either way, I think adding one or two more flyers would make Minus a better map. I almost never warp into 10/11 because there's really no good vehicles there. Adding a flyer there would make it a more strategically important node. And maybe consider adding the grappling hook to weapon lockers where the flyers are so they can carry additional troops to nodes.
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Old 01-04-2020, 12:20 PM   #5
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Yes.. I like Pulse Traitor, Wasp, or BioRaptor. I will have to tryout those, or maybe put another one of those at the base instead of the hammerhead...it would help teams trying to comeback from a beatdown. Especially if as suggested the grapple gun is added maybe to the roof weapon lockers.



I think I'll keep the first version simplier...


On the second, I think making more radical changes....including more fliers and fliers with more power/range falcon/phoenix (I might have to raise the ceiling as well as maybe spread the nodes a bit)..and a Kraken/Tiamat variant. I think of this version as more of an all out battle both skies and ground vs. most minus which are mostly ground based. This version might need some more jump pads/teleports to the tops of buildings so it might be fun. Those seem to work well on RedPlanet and its not so huge a map.
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Old 01-07-2020, 04:05 PM   #6
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First Version: http://stormdrake.com/utmaps/ONS-Min...licious-v2.ut2


Changes:



Painters to Redeemers behind boxes 1/2


Jumpads to the top of buildings in front and behind 8/9


Base:

PPC removed, replaced with Fire Tank

Hammerhead removed replaced with Banshee


1/2:
Added Pulse Traitor (to pull out those pesky hiding Dragons)


6: Replaced Cobras with a Nova and an Alligator


10/11: Added Wasp Series II




Now, how do we get it on the Server?


The other version, I was thinking of added more mantas (Windblade, NodeExploder), Kraken, Shocker, and few more flyers including the Falcon and Aurora.



I also think I might take a run at improving a couple of maps (Halloween-which is pretty but needs vehicles, and Valarna - which could be more of a flier type map)
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Old 01-07-2020, 10:09 PM   #7
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Awesome! Sounds like some cool changes, can't wait to try it out... thanks for working up something new to try!

You need to contact Mailbox via PM. He's pretty much the only one around once in a while with the ability to update maps. You should also copy Carpe_Diem and Analog as well, just on the off chance they see the message first, they can put it on too.

I've downloaded it and will test for bugs, would be much appreciated if anyone else could do the same.

p00tylicious... best. mapper. name. ever. lol
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Old 01-08-2020, 10:51 PM   #8
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Updated version, this one should have everything, as some of the vehicles weren't in it.
http://stormdrake.com/utmaps/ONS-Min...licious-v3.ut2


If anyone needs the .u files I can upload them as well.
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Old 01-11-2020, 07:32 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by {glr}pooty View Post
Updated version, this one should have everything, as some of the vehicles weren't in it.
http://stormdrake.com/utmaps/ONS-Min...licious-v3.ut2


If anyone needs the .u files I can upload them as well.
Now live on server

Greatly appreciate you stepping up and making this map. even our most popular maps could use a tune up or two. Hope to hear what people think of it on live server!
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by {glr}pooty View Post
First Version: http://stormdrake.com/utmaps/ONS-Min...licious-v2.ut2


Changes:

Jumpads to the top of buildings in front and behind 8/9
I really like this idea, can't wait to try it out.
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Old 01-12-2020, 10:36 AM   #11
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Can someone check the server log. When the map goes to load on the server, something crashes....someone mentioned a missing dependency. I didn't use anything, AFAIK, that isn't on an Omni map somewhere.
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Old 01-12-2020, 11:26 AM   #12
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Ok I've narrowed it down to either the Pulse Traitor and/or Wasp Series II. On my map they show I think an external dependency, vs. other maps where the class is 'myLevel' I think there may be some other dependency that the OMNI Maps are using that are different from the ones I have. Anyone have the .u files for Pulse Traitor and/or Wasp II? I've looked and those are embedded (I think that's what class myLevel.XXX means) in the maps, but when I cut and paste those two they don't work. I have to add the actors manually (via actor browser).
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Old 01-12-2020, 05:04 PM   #13
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Yes "MyLevel" means that it is build into your map-file.
When you have a .u-File and want to myLevel stuff you need to type "obj load file=#######.u package=myLevel" into the console. Try it a few times when it's not working in the first place (show the log). Important is that you don't have loaded files from that pakage when you what to add it. (Editor must be closed and new open after deleting and saving if there was stuf). The editor will always take the dependency methode first. You may also have to do it with textures and sounds,... in some cases. When you want it that way (big map but all together in one file).

Pulse Traitor is within this vehicle pack:
http://crash-ut3.clan.su/addons/ut20...ck/82-1-0-3153

You can implement stuff like that by selecting it in the vehicle lest from the properties from the vehicle static mesh in the map. Blue and red need to select both.

When you need technical help you are welcome to write on our forum at "The Creative Corner".

You can also ask WDM40 to take a look on it AFTER you are sure that there are no bugs insite your map or edit.
Like I did here:
http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthr...474#post215474
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Old 01-13-2020, 02:53 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by {glr}pooty View Post
Ok I've narrowed it down to either the Pulse Traitor and/or Wasp Series II. On my map they show I think an external dependency, vs. other maps where the class is 'myLevel' I think there may be some other dependency that the OMNI Maps are using that are different from the ones I have. Anyone have the .u files for Pulse Traitor and/or Wasp II? I've looked and those are embedded (I think that's what class myLevel.XXX means) in the maps, but when I cut and paste those two they don't work. I have to add the actors manually (via actor browser).
These file dependencies should already all be present on the game server. Recommend verifying the ut2's md5 if the upload to the server got corrupted. That checksum as tested: e96820e5790092d9cb0bdb7a5912a91c @Mailbox
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Old 01-13-2020, 04:28 AM   #15
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These file dependencies should already all be present on the game server. Recommend verifying the ut2's md5 if the upload to the server got corrupted. That checksum as tested: e96820e5790092d9cb0bdb7a5912a91c @Mailbox
I can verify that the checksum of the uploaded .ut2 file is e96820e5790092d9cb0bdb7a5912a91c.

And yeah, looks like the server is copping some errors when trying to load some packages, for some reason. Manually typing this because lol basic terminal:

Code:
Exporting ONS-MInusTankMeUp-p00tyulicious-v3...^MFailed to load 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE': Can't find file for package 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE'
Failed to load 'ONS-MInusTankMeUp-p00tylicious-v3': Can't find file for package 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE'
Failed to load 'LEvelSummary ONS-MinusTankMeUp-p00tylicious-v3.LevelSummary': Can't find file for package 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE'
Error loading ONS-MinusTankMeUP-p00tylicious-v3 !
So yeah, looks to be an issue with the pulse traitor not having a .u file local to the server??? Will dig into this later today to figure out what can be done. Thanks for finding this out
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:14 AM   #16
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I can verify that the checksum of the uploaded .ut2 file is e96820e5790092d9cb0bdb7a5912a91c.

And yeah, looks like the server is copping some errors when trying to load some packages, for some reason. Manually typing this because lol basic terminal:

Code:
Exporting ONS-MInusTankMeUp-p00tyulicious-v3...^MFailed to load 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE': Can't find file for package 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE'
Failed to load 'ONS-MInusTankMeUp-p00tylicious-v3': Can't find file for package 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE'
Failed to load 'LEvelSummary ONS-MinusTankMeUp-p00tylicious-v3.LevelSummary': Can't find file for package 'LIPChaoticMantasPackBE'
Error loading ONS-MinusTankMeUP-p00tylicious-v3 !
So yeah, looks to be an issue with the pulse traitor not having a .u file local to the server??? Will dig into this later today to figure out what can be done. Thanks for finding this out
LIP files:
https://www120.zippyshare.com/v/6PkcIWB0/file.html
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Old 01-13-2020, 09:40 AM   #17
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Thanks everyone for the help. I'll take another run at embedding them, for some it was easy cut and paste, but not so for the Pulse Traitor.



I don't know how we don't have the LIP Mantas already, they are in full vehicle loadout, panalesh and a couple of others..of course those may all be in embedded.



Is there any easier way to tell? --I have all the .u files locally, so that map works locally.


Is the preferred way to embed them or reference the .u files on the server?
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Old 01-13-2020, 05:57 PM   #18
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Ah, excellent, it seems that UT follows the "complain about one error and call it a day" mantra. Now that the pulse traitors are in, it complains about the wasp files missing. I actually don't have a local copy of GorzBirds. The old server directory has these files, but not the current one. So, plug that hole. Also had to upload files for the Wasp Series II and the Banshee as well. The server didn't complain in logs this time.

Code:
Exporting ONS-MinusTankMeUp-p00tylicious-v3.....Successful!
So crossing my fingers that things will finally work here. Will probably have to bug Carpe/analog about getting the redirect set up since I don't know where that's located.

EDIT: Talked with Carpe, and he said he'll be able to take care of the redirect server when he has the time. The map has been pulled from the roster for the time being until that's up, since downloading a 45MB map at a snail's pace won't be fun for anyone. Hope to have it back up ASAP!

Last edited by Mailbox; 01-13-2020 at 06:20 PM..
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:58 AM   #19
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I did update the map and put all the vehicles in the level if that helps: http://stormdrake.com/utmaps/ONS-Min...licious-v4.ut2



Of course its 51 MB. (So about the same as Kamek).
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Old 01-15-2020, 08:43 AM   #20
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Hammerhead removed replaced with Banshee
I missed this part of your edit comments, and I'd hate to be a stick in the mud after all your hard work and the issues you've had getting this map to work... but the banshee is probably the worst and most hated of all flyers. I'd rather have the hammerhead back because it's more effective at taking out nodes and vehicles. The banshee is just way too weak with the ammo limit and reload time of its primary fire. The only benefit of the banshee over the hammerhead is the ability to take a rider.

The main frustration with hammerheads is the weird ejection from them. Just seems odd to replace a crappy flyer with an even crappier one.

Even a cicada would be better than a banshee as it has a consistent rate of fire. It would be nice to have a flyer that can counter the dragon too, which neither the banshee nor hammerhead are good at. There's always the weaker falcon II to consider... I know you have a distaste for the original falcon being OP. Oddly, nobody seems to mind a tank with 2000 health, 1500 damage and a mile wide blast radius. That's another thing, the banshee is useless against the mino .

But, then again you have added the pulse traitor, which I'm excited about, and the wasp at nodes 10/11. Both can be effective against the dragon, as is the wasp against the mino. But banshee will become little more than a disposable way to get to the pulse traitor or wasp quickly.
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