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Old 02-02-2016, 01:06 PM   #1
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The bane of my Onslaught existence is the plethora of noobie numb-nuts who ignore the nodes and/or selfish players who think node-building is someone else's problem.

So here's an idea (If it can be done): Adjust the scoring so that kills don't earn points. Only node-building or node-destruction would count. This would not only encourage team play but it would infuriate the death-matchers, sending them scurrying back to the DM games where they belong.

Side-benefit: It would diminish the effect of hacks because they're all about point-building, not node-control.

Yes, I know. Fragile egos would be hurt because they couldn't pound their chests at the end of the game, lauding their mino-fattened kill numbers. We'd lose these players but, frankly, who needs them?

Me? I play to win. As a team. Screw the points.
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Old 02-02-2016, 01:48 PM   #2
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Interesting idea, but how many people are we talking about being an issue?

I can think of maybe 2-3 people who are almost strictly DM players. I say almost because they do help at nodes occasionally. They will tell you (and maybe rightfully) that they are node defenders once they are built, or distractions to the rest of us while playing. Of the people I am thinking of I am confident NONE of them will tell you they are here for points, they are here to DM and have fun. Taking their points away will almost certainly not change their behavior because they are not points players.

There are only a hand full of points players I can think of. Techstyle comes to mind, and maybe viice and his iPhone.

There are also a few that think they are helping by getting points and vaguely going to nodes that truly are not, for a few reasons I outline below...

There are other issues, but since this is a public server getting them to play ONS instead of play their agenda will be difficult, if not impossible to fix.

I always hope that people who should improve (including myself) would focus on a few things that would make them better players AND help the team.

1) Learn how to use and where to bring key vehicles. If you are in key vehicles for only 30 seconds, you need practice. If you take the mino out and only get 3 points, you need practice... If you take the GD Mino on the bridge, you need to not drive it, no amount of coaching will help you. If you take it to 7/9 only and over and over, and your team needs help and 7/9 is not an issue, you may want to consider getting into only vehicles with 400HP or less, no amount of coaching will help.

2) Basic movement competency. This is something I am focusing on at the moment. We play in a game setup (world) where moving around is how you play. Learn how to operate your character and you will become a better player, harder to hit, moving around faster and so on. Learn how to evade players on foot, dodges, wall dodges, shield jumps and so on. It's key. Spectate players and you will be shocked... running in a straight line? Yup, that works.

3) Learn how to operate regular vehicles. Yup, it's a thing. The Goliath, the Cobra, Centaur, the Aegis... they have ways to use them. Focusing on the basic machines can make a big difference. How many times have you seen an Aegis take down an Ion? It happens, and could happen a lot more if folks would learn to time their movements with the shot frequency of the vehicle they are attacking.

4) Learn how to take down basic vehicles. If you charge an Aegis (or Turtle!!) you will most certainly fail, and yet I see it all the time. The Aegis's aim is tricky, and if on foot at a distance you can get many Avril shots in on it and take it out. If you are up close flak works great, but I see people shoot at it with the link secondary or chain gun. It's a real wtf moment.

5) Bind your keys to switch weapons quickly. All of them are tools in your toolbox. Would I use a wrench when I need a screwdriver? If you have the toolbox near you you can switch faster.

Sadly, the people that will benefit from these types of conversations generally do not participate in these forums.

Andrew
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:16 PM   #3
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Lagzilla, great response.

It would make more since to take away damage points than player kills. On OMNI, you get 1 point for every 400 damage you do to a vehicle. There is a reason players like driving the Minotaur because it can one shot every vehicle except another Minotaur, Mega Badger, Leviathan, Kraken, Tiamat or the Mobile Asshole Station (Persus). That is an easy way to rack up points just by shooting other vehicles in addition to destroying/building nodes.

Death Matching exists in ONS whether you like it or not and it always will. Maps like Tyrant, Master Bath, Master Shower, Bitchslap, StarReach, Tanks A Lot (node 5 specifically) are DM heavy maps. On any MTMU map, DMing exists although its not as frequent of DM heavy... when a player exits a vehicle to touch a node and an enemy player shows up to defend/attack, that is DMing.

At node 5 on TaL, I still see players shooting long range flak primary or rockets while running in a straight line or double jumping in a straight line. That makes it so much easier to head shot them. And flak and rockets have to travel where the Lighting Gun, Shock and Sniper Rifle are instant hits upon firing the weapon... And there is a reason those weapons are in this game. The LG and Sniper Rifle are meant to shoot enemies at long range or short range. They also have scopes, in case you didn't know.

Key binding weapons is a must. Here are mine.

I move with my WASD keys.
Shift = LG/Sniper Rifle
E= Shock/SSR
R = Link
Tab= Flak
Q= Mini
Mouse 1= Rockets/Avrils
Mouse 2 = Shield gun

Improving movement is a must. If you can dodge and wall dodge, it makes it much harder to hit you. When I'm fighting a player who runs in a straight line or bunny hopping while shooting long range flak or rockets, it requires very little effort on my part to hit them. Yet when I encounter a player who is dodging/wall dodging and shooting LG or Shock back at me, its more difficult because I also have to be quick on my feet while being crisp and accurate with my LG shots at the same time

Hope this helps...
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Old 02-02-2016, 03:47 PM   #4
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Removing scores for kills won't happen. If you don't like the DMers don't play maps like Tyrant. I understand your frustration but it is what it is and it won't change. You need to adapt or start your own server. I think this is, in part, why the MTMU server was so popular. Remember that? Remember when the MTMU server was full every night and the normal server would have maybe 3 or 4 people on it? Why was that?

Termy, removing scores for damage would lead to a lot of kill stealing. One player does almost all the damage and then someone else knows they can get the last shot in before the player that did all the damage and they do it. Generally now this only happens by accident. Most people are gonna shoot at the enemy every chance they get. But if you take away points for damage people will steal kills on purpose. I would a like to see scores for kills removed like infinitecat says, not because of the DMers, but because if the only way to get points from battles was from the amount of damage a player did to vehicles and other players I think it would be a better representation of how well they were doing.
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Old 02-02-2016, 04:33 PM   #5
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Nevermind.

Last edited by Terminator; 02-02-2016 at 04:42 PM.. Reason: its not worth it.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:06 PM   #6
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Good points, Lag but they won't solve the problem. More efficient players are immaterial in a game where anyone can download and install an aim or radar hack. What you want are players who watch the maps and know which nodes to control, but the relentless point-grubbing reduces nodes to secondary importance, even among experienced players.

As long as players are simply fighting for points they'll whore the vehicles with the most potential damage capability <cough mino>, use every aim-hack at their disposal, ignore the benefits of team play, and ruin the whole experience for people who are there for more than just mindless chaos.
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Old 02-02-2016, 05:11 PM   #7
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Anti-TCC checks for all of that stuff, the ops of the server keep a close eye on this kind of bad behavior and do not tolerate it if by some odd chance something gets through, which is unlikely. People who can't bind weapons to keys are not running complex hacks.

We are still talking about only a handful of people that fall into the point whoring category. More people fall into the "(we) think (we) are helping by getting points and vaguely going to nodes..." This type of personality exists in a few of our current players, but again the minority by far.

I assume this is all coming from recent experiences?
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Old 02-02-2016, 07:17 PM   #8
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I've been playing UT2K4 since the beginning, Lag. Maybe t'was always thus but it sure seems like more newbs than ever are muddying our fine waters.

And, no, TCC doesn't catch everything. That's all too apparent when total newbs strike with perfect accuracy or Minos pick Hammerheads out of the sky time after time or seasoned players see you through the fog LONG before you see them.
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Old 02-02-2016, 08:26 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
And, no, TCC doesn't catch everything. That's all too apparent when total newbs strike with perfect accuracy or Minos pick Hammerheads out of the sky time after time or seasoned players see you through the fog LONG before you see them.
This whole thread is ridiculous. Talking about newbs when you're the one sounding noobish.

I know I sound like a dick, but I don't know how else to respond.
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Old 02-02-2016, 09:33 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
The bane of my Onslaught existence is the plethora of noobie numb-nuts who ignore the nodes and/or selfish players who think node-building is someone else's problem.

So here's an idea (If it can be done): Adjust the scoring so that kills don't earn points. Only node-building or node-destruction would count. This would not only encourage team play but it would infuriate the death-matchers, sending them scurrying back to the DM games where they belong.

Side-benefit: It would diminish the effect of hacks because they're all about point-building, not node-control.

Yes, I know. Fragile egos would be hurt because they couldn't pound their chests at the end of the game, lauding their mino-fattened kill numbers. We'd lose these players but, frankly, who needs them?

Me? I play to win. As a team. Screw the points.
There's only three regular deathmatchers who ignore nodes, and two of them will drive tanks and support their team on non-DM maps. Like Terminator said, removing damage points would correct the scores so that the node-builders/destroyers are more towards the top of the scoreboard.
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Old 02-02-2016, 10:10 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
I've been playing UT2K4 since the beginning, Lag. Maybe t'was always thus but it sure seems like more newbs than ever are muddying our fine waters.
Good to know, I was not sure since your nic here does not match your current nic in the game

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
And, no, TCC doesn't catch everything.
Never said it did.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
That's all too apparent when total newbs strike with perfect accuracy
I really have not seen this on this server... ever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
or Minos pick Hammerheads out of the sky time after time
Seems like aim, not hax.

Quote:
Originally Posted by infinitecat View Post
or seasoned players see you through the fog LONG before you see them.
Ask them how they are predicting your approach, or seeing you in advance. It's not hax, though I know how frustrating it is.

Andrew

Last edited by Lagzilla; 02-02-2016 at 10:42 PM..
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Old 02-03-2016, 01:51 PM   #12
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[QUOTE=Lagzilla;208151]Good to know, I was not sure since your nic here does not match your current nic in the game

I change my player name a lot because I can, and it's fun. It's not a freakin' trademark, though some people treat theirs like one.
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Old 02-03-2016, 02:44 PM   #13
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Great Idea!!! I think I Will Get My Name Trademarked..............lol

SMOKERô BUAHAHAHA!!
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Old 02-03-2016, 07:22 PM   #14
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[QUOTE=infinitecat;208160]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lagzilla View Post
Good to know, I was not sure since your nic here does not match your current nic in the game

I change my player name a lot because I can, and it's fun. It's not a freakin' trademark, though some people treat theirs like one.
Always a good time figuring out who Gunshy is. Or even strange Dr. Who references.

Andrew
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:47 PM   #15
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Hello,
I am Firestorm. I used to play here, alot. I hear you got a noob problem. I am hungry 4 pancake, will see u soon. Watch the ski's.
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Old 04-25-2016, 10:08 AM   #16
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Hello,
I am Firestorm. I used to play here, alot. I hear you got a noob problem. I am hungry 4 pancake, will see u soon. Watch the ski's.
Skies?
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Old 04-28-2016, 09:46 PM   #17
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No, he is going to use a new weapon, TurboNuclearSki's.
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Old 04-29-2016, 01:06 AM   #18
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Carpe has mastered the skill of dad jokes.
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Old 04-29-2016, 12:14 PM   #19
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Carpe has mastered the skill of dad jokes.
"Dad" or "Bad"? lol
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Old 04-29-2016, 02:11 PM   #20
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"Dad" or "Bad"? lol
Is there a difference?
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