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Old 12-25-2004, 12:43 PM   #1
ARsEnAl51
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Hello guys/girls,
I'm wondering if you could :
- increase the ping-kick threshold to 200 ?
or
- set the max player value to 24-26 so poor* european people like me can play on your server without being kicked because of the lag (I got kicked with a ping of 300 ms when max player was 32 XD and 184 ms when max player was 28 ).

* AMD Athlon 1GHZ, 256 RAM, Radeon 9500P-based GFX card with 128 VRAM :bear:

Happy frag'n and Merry Christmas (yeah, it's a bit late, I know)
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Old 12-25-2004, 01:10 PM   #2
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Hey... welcome to our forum.

I've actually decrease average ping limit to 175 from 200 because we've been having many problems with the laggers. It's not player count dependant. I'll change it back to 200 so you'll be fine.

BTW it's your average ping, being logged 90 secs after you join, so you should be fine.

QettoE,
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Old 12-26-2004, 01:56 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Qett)o(E
It's not player count dependant.
I don't download anything, nothing is running in background except AVG and ZoneAlarm... so if it is not, why is my ping usually about 160 ms and sometimes about 200+ ms ???
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Old 12-26-2004, 03:25 AM   #4
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I'm no expert, but it could be due to how the connection between your PC and the Server is being routed. It can also be due to Bandwidth usage in your area, or even a combination of both.

Ping is the time it takes to send and receive a signal, (packet loss and all that). Could be due to the time of day/night, on or off peak hours, etc. I was hanging with a friend of mine (his server is in Seattle, Wash) and I'm in NY (opposite ends of the USA). I had great ping, no lag the 1st time we played. The other night my FPS were fine, however I was pinging at 324, while my other friend in Mass was pinging at 49.... go figure that one out....

I'm under the impression that all games online go through Epic's master servers. If so, it could be partially Epic's fault as well (again, routing, bandwidth, etc) killing the speed between your PC and the Omnip)o(tentS {AS} server.

Hey, if I'm wrong, then someone who knows his shit, please enlighten me...
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Old 12-26-2004, 11:39 AM   #5
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I don't think it goes through Epic for ALL games, beacuse when the "master server" is down you can still join into servers you have bookmarked and/or have the IPs to...
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Old 12-26-2004, 11:48 AM   #6
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Latency, i.e. ping, is (almost) independent of your hardware. Although your RAM, CPU power, and video card will certainly effect how the game behaves on your computer, it has very little to do with how long it takes for a packet to get from your computer to the server and back. Your internet connection speed and type, your ISP, the amount of Internet traffic, the number of hops between you and the remote host, and the geographical distance between you and the remote host, and several other factors beyond anybody's control.

Your main problem is that the Atlantic ocean is in your way. To give you a point of reference, I am just under 900 miles (Oh sorry, about 1250 Km) from the server. From typing ping as.omnipotents.com at the windows command prompt, I get an average round trip time of 35ms. If I type tracert as.omnipotents.com, I have a total of 13 hops (including my own router and the server), so I have 11 nodes between my network and the server. Since I'm on the same continent, I have countless different high-bandwidth routes available should a major router go down. However, if I tracert your IP address, I have a total of 17 hops (again, two are the endpoints), which is certainly not bad. However, once I cross the Atlantic (apparently on an OC48 owned by France Telecom that connects New York to France) my round trip time jumps from 26ms to 100ms.

There's nothing much that can be done about that unless you can convince some company to run several more big OC's accross the Atlantic. I've heard that there are lots of good game servers in Europe, though, and you should have much lower pings to any of them. You're certainly welcome to play on our server whenever you don't get kicked for high pings, but unfortunately one person with high latency affects all the other players. That's why we have a maximum ping set.

-Doc

P.S. If you have the option of switching ISP's, others may have fewer hops and better routes across the Atlantic, but you're not likely to be able to get less that 125ms round-trip to most hosts in North America.
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:32 PM   #7
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*cries like a baby* :cry:

Isn't there a way to force the path of datas so my ping would be lower ?

I tried the tracert thingy under DOS, and it told me there were only 15 hops (including my ISP's server and )o('s server). Did I made something wrong which would explain I have 2 hops less than when you use tracert on my IP ?

Anyway, this morning I was playing HellBy [EvenSteven], and a few minutes after most barrels were destroyed, my ping went from 160 ms to 320 ms in a few seconds. I got kicked (of course) and I rejoined right after. Repeat this pattern 2 or 3 times... the last time I rejoinend, my ping was 170 ms...
The whole process took at most 10 minutes.
So I don't think the Internet traffic might be involved in this case... or I'm very very unlucky :cry:

As for european servers, well... lets say I'm too lazy to find them and they usually have only classic maps

PS : thx QettoE for increasing the ping-kick threshold rayer:
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:35 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARsEnAl51
*cries like a baby* :cry:

PS : thx QettoE for increasing the ping-kick threshold rayer:
NP. I've actually set it back to what it was. That barrel part always screws thing up See if you get kicked on other maps too.

Q.
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:37 PM   #9
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erm... ok, but i got kicked a few minutes after the barrel part !! so why would this take so long to get my ping higher ?
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Old 12-26-2004, 12:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARsEnAl51
erm... ok, but i got kicked a few minutes after the barrel part !! so why would this take so long to get my ping higher ?
I'm not very sure, but I believe that when there is too much graphical activity then more FPS and data will be pumped to your machine from the server, it created bottleneck and makes your ping go way up I think.

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Old 12-26-2004, 03:38 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARsEnAl51
*cries like a baby* :cry:

Isn't there a way to force the path of datas so my ping would be lower ?

I tried the tracert thingy under DOS, and it told me there were only 15 hops (including my ISP's server and )o('s server). Did I made something wrong which would explain I have 2 hops less than when you use tracert on my IP ?
Unfortunately, the path of your packets is controlled by your ISP's upstream routers and by the backbone routers upstream of them. There's absolutely no way to alter the routing unless you control the routers. Usually the upstream routers will be configured to take the best possible route anyway, so It's not likely you could improve it very much even if you could change it.

I ran a trace route from my home computer to you, and from my home computer to the Omnipotents server, not from the omnipotents server to you, so it's not surprising at all that the number of hops is different. Most routes change occaisionally anyway since they are not all static. Of course, that's going a little bit off-topic, and also just about all I know about IP.

I forgot to ask this originally, but what type of connection do you have, and what are your advertised and actual speeds? You may see a reduction in your ping times if you set your netspeed in UT to the lowest possible and uncheck dynamic netspeed.

-Doc
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Old 12-26-2004, 04:13 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Doc
I forgot to ask this originally, but what type of connection do you have, and what are your advertised and actual speeds? You may see a reduction in your ping times if you set your netspeed in UT to the lowest possible and uncheck dynamic netspeed.

-Doc
I got ADSL 512/256 Kbps (down/up adv), I don't know for my actual speed.
Thanks for this advice, I'll try that tomorrow

Edit : I forgot the best !! This happend 3 hours ago now.
I got kicked twice or trice on TheAlienWars, the last time I rejoined, my ping was 340 ms but UAdmin didn't kicked me although the 90 secs where already gone. Maybe it's a bug, or maybe UAdmin decided to be nice
Anyway, that's not the best part of the story. HellBy [EvenSteven] won the vote and... ow well, just take a look at the ScreenShots !!!!!

PS : NO I DIDN'T EDITED THE PICTURES WITH PSP OR ANYTHING ELSE !! THAT'S THE TRUTH !!!

SO WTF IS GOING ON ???
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Old 12-26-2004, 04:36 PM   #13
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UAdmin Mod checks your average ping. This is how it works selected from UAdmin help file:

PingWatch scans all players' pings every iScanFrequency seconds.

For reference:

HPB - High Ping Bastard. These are players who's pings are
considered high relative to the other players on the server.
In some cases, an HPB (or a few of them together) can cause lag
for the whole server.

LPB - Low Ping Bastard. These are players who's pings are considered
really low relative to the other players on the server. Server/
Client netspeeds aside, they don't lag the server... but some feel
that they have an unfair advantage. The option is here for the sake
of completeness.

For any given player, their current ping is stored and an average is
established based on the number of scans that have been done for them
individually. Once iMinScansForAction has been reached for that player,
their average ping is evaluated for being too high or too low. If their
AVERAGE ping breaches a threshold, they are kicked (short spikes will
not count against them). If they are kicked, the event is logged
(/UserLogs/UAdminMod.log) and they are shown a message explaining why
they were kicked.

Note that if bCheckForServerLag is True (which I highly recommend), the
average ping on the server will be taken into account before reviewing
anyone's pings. If UAdminMod determines that the server is lagging, the
event will be logged and the current scan will be aborted.

Lastly, in any given scan, any player with a ping of 999 or 0 will be
ignored since 0 or 999 represents other things going on rather than a
poor connection. Also, scans will not take place prior to match start or
after the match has ended.

The settings for Ping Watcher are described below, but aside from setting
iMaxPing, I recommend leaving them alone. The defaults have been heavily
tested and offer the most accurate calculations on a given player's ping
over the course of a game. They've been tweaked to all but eliminate a
player from being unfairly kicked while still keeping the pings on your
server within a reasonable level. Remember: leaving iMaxPing at 999
effectively disables any checking for high pings, while leaving iMinPing
at 0 effectively disables any checking for low pings. I recommend
leaving iMinPing at 0 and setting iMaxPing somewhere between 250 and 300.

bEnabled=False
If True, the utility is enabled. Shocking, I know.

bCheckForServerLag=True
If True, PingWatch will make sure the server isn't lagging
(and thus responsible for players' high pings) before it validates
pings. The way it does this is somewhat crude (but effective): It
checks everyone's pings, and if the average ping on the server is
greater than iMaxPing, it aborts the current scan. I would NEVER
set this to False unless you want to be REALLY strict and are
POSITIVE your server will never be the cause of lag.

bIgnoreHighAndLow=True
Similar to bCheckForServerLag, this is a measure designed to prevent
people from being kicked when their ping average isn't entirely
accurate due to a short spike on their line. By leaving this on,
players' high ping and low ping will be removed from their ping
average. This results in a more accurate ping average over time.

bAdminsImmune=True
Self-explanatory.

iMaxPing=999
This is the threshold for kicking HPB's. Leaving it at 999
disables checking for HPB's. If you want to enable this, here is
a basic set of guidelines:

Not Strict: 300
Moderately Strict: 175 - 200
Strict SOB: < 150

If it were my server, I'd probably set it somewhere between 225
and 300, but that's just me.

iMinPing=0
This is the threshold for kicking LPB's. Leaving it at 0
essentially disables checking for LPB's.

Setting this at all makes no sense to me, so do I can't really
offer any guidelines here.

iScanFrequency=20
This is the frequency, in seconds, that PingWatch scans players'
pings.

iMinScansForAction=4 & iWarnings=1
This is the minimum number of scans on a given player before
action is taken on them for AVERAGING a too high/low ping. If
you leave these two settings at 4 and 1 respectively, then no
one player will be kicked until the SIXTH scan. That's 4
scans + 1 warning = 5 scans. After the fifth scan, they are
fair game. Let's suppose their average ping doesn't climb
above iMaxPing until the 20th scan, but they've had no warnings.
Well, they'll receive a warning on the 21st scan and, if their
ping hasn't dropped by the 22nd scan, they'll be booted on the
22nd scan.

iMinPlayers=4
This is the minimum number of players that need to be on the
server before Ping Watcher will begin scanning and tracking
pings. If you have a large server (say, 10+ players) and
decent bandwidth, you may not care to start scanning unless
the player count reaches a certain percentage of that. If
my server had a capacity of 16 players, I probably wouldn't
start scanning pings until it reached 8 players. Why?
Because even if someone is lagging, I want them on my server
to help attract more players. When more players arrive, then
we can let him/her go! If you want to disable this option,
just set it to 0.

iScanDelay=90
I strongly recommend not altering this setting. This is the
amount of time a player can play on a server before they'll
be included in the ping scans. Because a lot of information
is pushed down to the client when they first connect (this is
AFTER they've received any mutators and/or maps), their pings
are higher for a short while (30 seconds or less usually)
after connecting. This delays scanning them until all of that
stuff has been pushed down to them. If you're running a 1-on-1
DM server, you can probably set this to 20 or 30 seconds. For
large ONS servers, leave it at 90.

A few notes:

a. Players are evaluated based on their average ping over time...
not one specific ping. For instance, if the server's maximum
allowable ping is 200 and I have 6 scans done on myself that found
pings of 50, 65, 70, 45, 250 (spike on my ISP), and 60 respectively,
my AVERAGE ping would be 90 - I will not be kicked or warned.

b. bCheckForServerLag is important. I seriously recommend leaving
this alone. Let's take an extreme example: Suppose over the course
of 6 scans I have pings of 50, 65, 750, 630, 65, 70... but on the
third and forth scans (750 and 630), half of the server's players had
similar pings. Well, assuming the server's maximum allowable ping is
still set at 200, I might be concerned about getting kicked. Wrong.
Those third and forth scans would be completely discarded for everyone,
since it's pretty apparent that it was server lag that caused my pings
to shoot through the roof. HOWEVER, if the server had disabled
bCheckForServerLag, those two scans would be factored in and half the
server's players would have artifically inflated average pings (mine
would be 272), and we would be kicked if those two scans pushed our
averages above the threshold. Now, that's an extreme example... scans
take place every 20 seconds by default, so one or two high scans aren't
going to impact the average much, but it still helps to keep this
option on.

c. bIgnoreHighAndLow can be set to false to make your server a little
more strict. Setting this to false won't have the landslide negative
effects that setting bCheckForServerLag to false could... it just
tightens things up a little. To explain how it works, lets use the
following example:

Suppose I've been on a server for 3 minutes. If iScanFrequency is
set at 30 seconds, I will have had 6 scans by now. Here are the
results of those scans:

1. 60ms
2. 100ms
3. 70ms
4. 80ms
5. 850ms
6. 75ms

AVG: 206ms

It's obvious that I had a little spike on my line during the 5th
scan, and most server admins probably wouldn't want to have me
kicked, even if their threshold is set at 200ms (which, by the
way, is a little strict). Well, if you toss out the 1st and 5th
scan (remember, both the high and the low are thrown out with this
option on), my average is now 81ms - which is a far more accurate
representation of my connection than 206ms is. I'm now far from
getting kicked.
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Old 12-26-2004, 04:38 PM   #14
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OK...
But how do you explain my ping on the screenshots ? uh ?
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Old 12-26-2004, 04:44 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ARsEnAl51
OK...
But how do you explain my ping on the screenshots ? uh ?
That screenshot looks very clean. No spam and not much action is going on. As soon as you turn your head to a lot of spam or activity your ping changes, so I can't look at those shots as legitimate ones.

I had check for server lag to true, then UAdmin mod will take necessarty action when it determines that server is laggy. Min players is also set to 16, so pingwatch will not make any moves until player count goes over 16P.

Since you've always been on our server with no problem until a few days ago, I'd say that your ISP is experincing some routing difficulties or changes. Let's see what will happen later. I will change that check frequency to 5 instead of 4 to see if it'll help you out.

QettoE,
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Old 12-27-2004, 01:10 AM   #16
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We have British players on our servers in the afternoon GMT and I don't hear many complains for them. Worldly speaking, I'd say the ping is pretty well-rounded. I'd check with my ISP... what type of ethernet connection do you have?

Also, the F1 ping doesn't tell you very much... take a screenshot with your F6 ping, which shows much more information about your connection, as well as a more accurate ping.
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Old 12-27-2004, 01:11 PM   #17
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Disabling the auto-speed detection thingy and manually changing the speed didn't helped except when I changed fro ASDL to LAN/T1, although the ingame situation wasn't improved, it seems I connected faster to the server (or maybe that was just Internet traffic ?)

Anyway, I'm gonna change my comp tomorrow because I can't access my ISP's web-servers and because my HDD is kinda old (it asks for a full scandisk every (re)boot*)
I'll have an Athlon 64 3200, 512 RAM, 128 VRAM, 200 Gb HDD
I'll have to install Ut2k4 through my 10mb LAN, so this should take a few hours.

Ah... I'm gonna play UT with more than 5 FPS. Sweet 8)

*9 hours for a full scan :o
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