ONS-Halloween_nm-V2 teleporters

This map is unbalanced. There are teleporters (and jump pads) that are only available to one side (red?) that allow quick movement to the nodes. These items aren't available for the other side, allowing one side to have an unfair advantage. Hopefully it would be a quick fix for someone. That's also part of the reason some of us don't vote for this map (or at least why I don't) because of this known bug.

A quick look shows teleporters spread pretty evenly around the map. Problem is they don't have any emitters showing a player where they are. You must have found them by accident.

I looked at editing this map a while back but it's just a little too non-symmetrical for my taste, especially at the Leviathan node. There's also a problem with bots falling through the map but the killz is set too low so they just walk around under the map and sometimes shoot up at things.

I think a solution to the teleporters would be to just delete them all.

I'll clean this map up if Carpe still wants it on the server. I've already found several holes in the terrain without looking for them. That's probably why I've seen so many bots under the map. I'll sweep the map and check for any more problems. There are some things like floating graves and spawn points that aim you at the wall (I think they are all pointing in the default direction) but I will probably leave all of that since it doesn't really matter and I don't want to go all OCD on this map.

I put emitters to tell where all the teleporters are then tried it out. I don't like it. It's way too easy to get around the map quickly on foot. I'm going to leave them in for now though. I'm moving them around just a little so that they make more sense and I'm also fixing some imbalances in them. I'll try to get that done and fix the holes then upload that. From there I might look into doing more. If anyone else is working on it let me know. I haven't done much.

Originally Posted by Binger

I'll clean this map up if Carpe still wants it on the server. I've already found several holes in the terrain without looking for them. That's probably why I've seen so many bots under the map. I'll sweep the map and check for any more problems. There are some things like floating graves and spawn points that aim you at the wall (I think they are all pointing in the default direction) but I will probably leave all of that since it doesn't really matter and I don't want to go all OCD on this map.

I put emitters to tell where all the teleporters are then tried it out. I don't like it. It's way too easy to get around the map quickly on foot. I'm going to leave them in for now though. I'm moving them around just a little so that they make more sense and I'm also fixing some imbalances in them. I'll try to get that done and fix the holes then upload that. From there I might look into doing more. If anyone else is working on it let me know. I haven't done much.

I'm not working it. Maybe it's time to pull it from the server, then the new version can be put on next year.

Originally Posted by Turbo K

...then the new version can be put on next year.

That's probably how long it will take me.

Thanks for looking at everyone! Since Halloween is over I don't think a year wait would be a problem. Heck, we had this problem last year but we didn't even both to mention it... just stopped playing it. Like the look of the map though. I think the only other thing I noticed was that there were some weapons lockers near nodes that didn't have the link gun.

I finished marking all the teleporters with emitters and fixing all the holes in the map. It took me a while because flying around a map like that doing detailed inspections gives me motion sickness. I had to do a little at a time. I lost count but I would say there were over 10 holes that a player could fit through. Probably 20 to 30 holes in all. Very sloppy. I noticed that there is pretty much no bot pathing so I will throw in some path markers. Not gonna get to detailed on that. I'll also check out all the weapons lockers then call that good.

I'll save the fixed version when I'm done but then I will probably go ahead and tweak this a little more to make it what I think it should be, imo of course. I would like to remove all the teleporters that allow you to go between the nodes and just have a few in there for getting to pickups in the towers. I would also like to look at the vehicle setup. At least move them around a little. I will NOT go all modern OP on this map and if I do add any vehicles I will keep them stock or close to it. Adding the Specials nodes would be an option. I like the way they catch the link beam. Changing weapons lockers to my preferred style of fewer weapons but full ammo would also be an option. If I manage to get all that done I might have a look at changing around the area around the Levi node so that you can get down with the Levi on both sides.

When I get both of those done I'll upload them and then ask which if any should be submitted to replace the one currently on the server. I'm willing to make any changes suggested as long as they are not to radical. I'd like to keep the classic feel.

Awesome work Binger! Thanks for working on it!

Teleporters
I agree with you on the teleporters. The teleporters would be good to remove... I could see the quick access to the nodes being a problem. It would probably make it too easy to keep the primary node from locking for the enemy. Setting them to power-ups sounds good.

Vehicles
The standard vehicle load out never bothered me on the map. I think the only thing I think bothered me was the lack of seats at the core. I don't think it has a full 16? ...manta, hellbender, tank, raptor, and a scorpion? If anything, I'd add one more manta and maybe change the scorpion to one of Gorz wo the huge knockback problem? The placement of the vehicles, like you said, could be better. Never noticed about the levi path... that definitely would be good to fix.

You're welcome, Fuzzy. Although I wish I'd never touched it. I spent way more time on this than I wanted to. It really was unfinished. Not just sloppy, but unfinished. It's weird too, because the author obviously had some decent skills but it's like he just got tired of working on it and decided to upload it before it was done. I'm not sure someone else hasn't touched it after the original author but unless they deleted a lot of things it was still originally unfinished.

I've done a fixed version which is basically aimed at just finishing the map and trying to avoid changing what I thought it was originally intended to be. Here's a summary.

-Fixed all the holes in the Terrain.
-Added emitters to all Teleporters so that they are visible to players. Adjusted their locations and spawn directions.
-Added more Player Starts at the core and adjusted the positions and spawn directions of all Player Starts.
-Adjusted Weapons Lockers height so that they aren't floating.
-Adjusted locations of vehicles and snapped them all to floor.
-Added Flying Path nodes. There were none. I just threw in a basic grid and made sure all Raptors had links to that grid and links to all nodes (through regular path nodes).
-Added a lot of regular Path Nodes.
-Added Road Path Nodes. There were none.

-I didn't do much around the Levi Node. It needs some work for pathing and possibly some changes to the whole layout of that area.
-The pathing logic of UT2004 is pretty flawed and it will create some weird links and not create obvious ones. This takes a lot of work tweaking things. I got tired of doing that and got to a point where I decided it was still not ideal but good enough. The bots will still get out of vehicles when they shouldn't and they try to use the teleporters with vehicles. I'm not going to do anymore work on that though.
-I didn't add any new vehicles and only did some minor changes to their positions at the nodes other than the core.


Now is the time for suggestions for an updated version. Here are my ideas.

-Remove all teleporters that are used for getting around the map. I don't think this works well on a outdoor map like this. I would like to add some power-ups or weapons to the towers and set up teleporters for that.
-Add a few more vehicles but keep them more on the classic side.
-Change Weapons Lockers. I prefer them to have a small number of weapons but with max ammo. All should have Link Gun and just enough other weapons to cover short/medium/long range.
-I think the area around the Levi node needs to be changed up to allow a better path for the vehicles to get down to the main level of the map. I also think that maybe the Levi should be removed and replaced with a tank variety.

Originally Posted by Binger

Now is the time for suggestions for an updated version. Here are my ideas.

-Remove all teleporters that are used for getting around the map. I don't think this works well on a outdoor map like this. I would like to add some power-ups or weapons to the towers and set up teleporters for that.

Well, I don't play ONS any more, but one of the things I always LIKED about this map was the ability to get
around on foot. So I like the 'porters.

*shrug*

Originally Posted by Binger

I also think that maybe the Levi should be removed and replaced with a tank variety.

It doesn't ruin the map in any way.

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem

Well, I don't play ONS any more, but one of the things I always LIKED about this map was the ability to get
around on foot. So I like the 'porters.

*shrug*

The teleporters weren't marked with emitters. How did you even know they were there? The only way someone could have know about them is if they watched the bots use them or they accidentally ran into one. And if you did find out about them remembering where they were would have been pretty difficult. They were 17 of them and they were not in obvious places. Are you sure your thinking of the same map? Play offline with no bots and try to find the teleporters.

The version I uploaded still has the teleporters in it. I didn't make any of the changes I suggested in the second part of my post.

Originally Posted by Terminator

It doesn't ruin the map in any way.

Yeah, okay, I won't take it out. It's hard to get the thing out of that area though. If you drive straight over the edge you land in the water and get stuck.

Originally Posted by Binger

Yeah, okay, I won't take it out. It's hard to get the thing out of that area though. If you drive straight over the edge you land in the water and get stuck.

Ohhhh Bless you!

That is not Leviathans fault. You said yourself that the terrain needs to be redone for better access for ground vehicles. I know next to nothing about mapping but I'd be willing to take a UT101 mapping course with Instructor Binger and TK. Thanks for redoing maps, creating new ones, and putting up with my Leviathan-fetish.

And Flounder, don't you dare. Remember Flounder, I fucking love you. Man love baby.

Originally Posted by Terminator

Ohhhh Bless you!

That is not Leviathans fault. You said yourself that the terrain needs to be redone for better access for ground vehicles. I know next to nothing about mapping but I'd be willing to take a UT101 mapping course with Instructor Binger and TK. Thanks for redoing maps, creating new ones, and putting up with my Leviathan-fetish.

And Flounder, don't you dare. Remember Flounder, I fucking love you. Man love baby.

Yeah, it was just an idea. I decided to try to get a good path for the bots out of there without changing the lay-out of that area and I saw one make it with the Levi and another with the Raptor so I might call that good. I wouldn't be surprised though if a live player drives the Levi straight over the cliff.

I'm just not happy enough with the bot pathing. I'm not sure why I'm having so much trouble with that. All nodes and both cores are linked with some pretty clear paths but the bots still keep doing stupid things. I'm gonna work on that some more. I haven't run the debugger yet and I think I may have too many path markers. Ugh.

Carpe, do you have any other versions of this map? I see there was one before V2 (makes sense) but I can't find an active download. I'm just curious.

I like this map, but always wished you could get into a couple of buildings and hide...

Originally Posted by {glr}pooty

I like this map, but always wished you could get into a couple of buildings and hide...

I'm looking into that. You can get in the one behind the lower-middle node but there's not much in there. I'm planning on putting in some teleporters for access to the towers.

Originally Posted by Binger

Carpe, do you have any other versions of this map? I see there was one before V2 (makes sense) but I can't find an active download. I'm just curious.

Ya, there was a variant before V2 (I believe it was the original, modified by someone on Omni). If you want
it let me know and I'll get it to you.

CD

Originally Posted by Carpe Diem

Ya, there was a variant before V2 (I believe it was the original, modified by someone on Omni). If you want
it let me know and I'll get it to you.

CD

If it's not too much trouble that would be great.