Dria-S

Disclaimer: I'm on a coffee binge at the moment, so hopefully this post will be understandable.

I am all for a symmetrical version of Dria. Although I voted south side, either would be fine IMO. I think it would be even better if you could mirror the west side opposed to the north or south.

I think I posted this in another thread, but the main issues I see are that one side (the "good" side) has direct, line of sight access to the 2 middle nodes, making them trivial to suppress, even without a mino, ion, or hurricane. Additionally, the "good" side has better access to the secondary (node 6) making it faster to build and easier to respond in case of attack, where the "bad" side has a corner secondary that is much further to travel and a giant hill in the way, requiring one to climb the hill or to come in the main entrance.

So if you mirror the south, both teams will have a greater chance to take the corner node due to the layout, and less of a chance to get core hits due to the access to the middle node that links to the primary from the big hill. If you mirror the north, both teams have an easier time suppressing corner node attacks due to the layout, distance, and ability to suppress the middle node linking to their corner, but the chances are a little better for core hits on the other end since there is no big hill to pound the middle from.

What if we changed the structures that protect the middle nodes? I was thinking something like Stones, but it could be anything. A castle or fort of some kind would be cool. Testing would be needed though, and I don't know how much the masses would appreciate the change.

[QUOTE=Turbo K;210878]You mean like Evergreen and All-Fall-Down?

Almost nobody wants to play these, Dria however is a regular. Seems like apples to oranges to me.

Originally Posted by dimshade

Disclaimer: I'm on a coffee binge at the moment, so hopefully this post will be understandable.

I am all for a symmetrical version of Dria. Although I voted south side, either would be fine IMO. I think it would be even better if you could mirror the west side opposed to the north or south.

I think I posted this in another thread, but the main issues I see are that one side (the "good" side) has direct, line of sight access to the 2 middle nodes, making them trivial to suppress, even without a mino, ion, or hurricane. Additionally, the "good" side has better access to the secondary (node 6) making it faster to build and easier to respond in case of attack, where the "bad" side has a corner secondary that is much further to travel and a giant hill in the way, requiring one to climb the hill or to come in the main entrance.

So if you mirror the south, both teams will have a greater chance to take the corner node due to the layout, and less of a chance to get core hits due to the access to the middle node that links to the primary from the big hill. If you mirror the north, both teams have an easier time suppressing corner node attacks due to the layout, distance, and ability to suppress the middle node linking to their corner, but the chances are a little better for core hits on the other end since there is no big hill to pound the middle from.

What if we changed the structures that protect the middle nodes? I was thinking something like Stones, but it could be anything. A castle or fort of some kind would be cool. Testing would be needed though, and I don't know how much the masses would appreciate the change.

Very good points and I agree with all of it except the West side. Just to be clear the "good" side would be the red core in the pic below, correct? That's what I consider the easier side because not only is its hill much better for camping but it also has node 5 on its side of the lake, which makes it much easier to hit the enemy lake node. Also, the north lake node is closer to the bridge, which makes it easier to attack because there is more cover to attack from and the travel time is shorter for that miracle cutoff crap people like to do.

The corner nodes to me are the part I'm most undecided on. What you said is spot on. In some ways I like node 9 better because it has the little hill on the outside of the node that I like but it also has that long valley leading to it from the core on its side of the lake, which I don't like.

The west side would be my last choice because not only does it have the long travel time to the corner node for the team on that side of the lake but it also has the smaller hill outside of the base, which I don't really like. I like the base side that has the big hill, I think that whole quarter of the map is more interesting than the opposing quarter but either would be fine. My ideal choice would be the East side but with some editing on the big hill and moving the north lake node further from the bridge and node 5.

I think I influenced things by saying it would be difficult to mirror east/west and by grouping that in one option. I can try it and see. One problem I know I will have, but which shouldn't be a big deal, is that on the edge of the lake there is a small color change. That is done by static meshes that I think I would have trouble lining up if I did an east/west split, so they would have to go. They wrap around the top and bottom of the lake in single pieces so I couldn't split them in the middle just using the editor.

I had forts built for the lake nodes but I can't find that. I must have deleted it. I made small islands and used some of the wall pieces to make ruins of a small fort. I can do that again.

I like the fort castle from ONS-Halloween, the node where the Leviathan spawns. Also, Lagzilla found some good castle/forts that he placed on the new Pyroclastic.

Originally Posted by Terminator

I like the fort castle from ONS-Halloween, the node where the Leviathan spawns. Also, Lagzilla found some good castle/forts that he placed on the new Pyroclastic.

I like that castle on Halloween but I think that might be too big for the lake on Dria. Plus it would need to be ruins to fit in with the theme of the map. I would be interested in what Lag is using on Pyro.

Here's a quick rough-in similar to what I did before. This took my like 5 minutes. It's just to give a visual to the idea.

Originally Posted by Binger

Lots of stuff

Yeah the east side is the better side. Just about any vehicle that has decent accuracy (including badgers) can hit node 1 since the top of the node is visible from the little building there at 5, plus you have the building to hide behind if there are powerful vehicles on the lake bed.

I understand your feelings on the west side. I just thought that if it was more difficult to put fire on the center nodes instead of the way it is now on the east side, it would require people to go to the node and fight to take it down rather than sit back and shoot from afar like they do now (myself included). Vehicles like the mino and ion will probably always be able to hit the node from multiple places, but a badger or railgun should have to expose itself a bit to shoot the node. Just my opinion, others may disagree. Simply putting a boulder or something in the way could be the solution.

Not sure what to do about the corner nodes. As long as it's equal to the opposing side it shouldn't be an issue, so mapper's choice?

Edit: That fort looks pretty sweet actually.

Originally Posted by dimshade

Yeah the east side is the better side. Just about any vehicle that has decent accuracy (including badgers) can hit node 1 since the top of the node is visible from the little building there at 5, plus you have the building to hide behind if there are powerful vehicles on the lake bed.

I understand your feelings on the west side. I just thought that if it was more difficult to put fire on the center nodes instead of the way it is now on the east side, it would require people to go to the node and fight to take it down rather than sit back and shoot from afar like they do now (myself included). Vehicles like the mino and ion will probably always be able to hit the node from multiple places, but a badger or railgun should have to expose itself a bit to shoot the node. Just my opinion, others may disagree. Simply putting a boulder or something in the way could be the solution.

Not sure what to do about the corner nodes. As long as it's equal to the opposing side it shouldn't be an issue, so mapper's choice?

Edit: That fort looks pretty sweet actually.

Yeah, the side with the big plateau instead of the small hill allows the Badger and Railtank to "head glitch" where they can shoot down at someone without them being able to return fire. This also happens on the bridge, but isn't as big of a problem.

My only suggestion would be, if you make changes, make it a new map, but keep the old one around for a while. Reset the counters on both maps and see which gets voted in more before the current one gets the boot.

This is a very popular map and changing it will definitely piss somebody off.

Originally Posted by McLovin

My only suggestion would be, if you make changes, make it a new map, but keep the old one around for a while. Reset the counters on both maps and see which gets voted in more before the current one gets the boot.

This is a very popular map and changing it will definitely piss somebody off.

Truth. As it sits, Dria is already a staple, one of those few maps that has found the near perfect balance. BUT I think testing a new evolution is always good too.

Originally Posted by Turbo K

You mean like Evergreen and All-Fall-Down?

Asymmetrical maps are fine, they just need to have the vehicle loadout setup to neutralize any advantages one side might have. An example is in my Dria-Gorz edit where the Falcon on the bad side spawned faster.

Maps that are very asymmetrical, like Evergreen, Fall-Down, Spif, are different than maps like Dria. Maps that are mostly symmetrical but have differences in the details are bad, imo. It should be all or none. That's just my opinion, though. Dria is kind of a weird in between.

Asymmetrical maps will never be perfectly balanced. There is no way to accurately measure the advantage of one side over another. Things can be done to compensate but one side will always have an advantage. It comes down to how much a player values fair balance. I put a lot of value in it. Line of sight is paramount. That's why I started this, plus the fact that it often gets mentioned in game on Dria that one side has an advantage. I honestly expected more of a positive response to making it symmetrical but I can also understand why people want it to stay the same.

Originally Posted by Turbo K

Yeah, the side with the big plateau instead of the small hill allows the Badger and Railtank to "head glitch" where they can shoot down at someone without them being able to return fire. This also happens on the bridge, but isn't as big of a problem.

The plateau hill can be edited to eliminate that.

Originally Posted by McLovin

My only suggestion would be, if you make changes, make it a new map, but keep the old one around for a while. Reset the counters on both maps and see which gets voted in more before the current one gets the boot.

This is a very popular map and changing it will definitely piss somebody off.

Yeah, I agree with that. 8 to 5 is not very much in favor of change. I think the vote for change would need to be much higher to justify replacing the current Dria with a symmetrical one. I'll give this time to see if more people show up to vote. If not then I will only work on it if Carpe is willing to have both on the server at the same time.

I think changing the theme to "tropical" would be really cool, and making the lake have water like the old Panalesh would be nice as well.

Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz]

I think changing the theme to "tropical" would be really cool, and making the lake have water like the old Panalesh would be nice as well.

Water that doesn't hurt vehicles, or at least have most of it be shallow with certain deep spots

http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthr...+spring&page=2

I'd like to download it, but it's a Gamefront link, and it deletes files after 60 days of inactivity.

Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz]

I'd like to download it, but it's a Gamefront link, and it deletes files after 60 days of inactivity.

I was referencing the whole thread, which was about a Dria edit I did where the central lake was filled with water and some of the tanks were converted to hovercraft. I can re-upload it if you want.

Yes please. Please don't use Gamefront, they delete inactive files.

Here you go:

http://www.mediafire.com/file/65dv86...ing-TMU-V2.zip

Thanks. I like the concept, but it's a little too close to the Dria we have now in terms of terrain textures. I would like it a lot if had sand/grass and palm trees. Something like RapaNui, Araja, or IslandHop.

Originally Posted by Anonymous[Lolz]

Thanks. I like the concept, but it's a little to close to the Dria we have now in terms of terrain textures. I would like it a lot if had sand/grass and palm trees. Something like RapaNui, Araja, or IslandHop.

I agree. It would be cool if the map was completely gutted and redone. Perhaps the non-TMU version since that one is not as popular.

Originally Posted by Turbo K

I agree. It would be cool if the map was completely gutted and redone. Perhaps the non-TMU version since that one is not as popular.

I always preferred Dria with the King Hellhound and Raptor at the core. ONS-Dria-)o(-V7 I think, but that version didn't have badgers at the core yet, which were a good touch. I believe there was even one with the Fire Hound at the core, but I honestly can't remember that far back as to which version it was.
It would be best if this server had a serveractor that would allow multiple versions of one map to be grayed out if one was recently played, like on LDG. That way everyone can be pleased, and variety can be increased.