Onslaught Onslaught Server Discussion

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Old 02-27-2019, 09:26 PM   #1
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Default Spring 2019 Scoring Changes and Other Things
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Hey everyone,

It's been about three months since the Winter Fall 2018 scoring changes, and since then, the server population has gone down a great deal. The server has gone down from a consistent 3rd/4th place on GameRankings down to 5th. What was once 16-24 player nights have gone down to <16 players. As I begin to write this, The server has 4 players on at 9:00 PM ET...

When I asked Carpe if I could change the scoring system, he let me do so, under the condition that if it was a turd, it would be my fault. It is fair to say that I have a lot of guano on the server now because of my doings. My effective vanishing from the server for a good 2 months after the changes didn't help matters, and meant that the problems presented in the new scoring changes persisted longer than they had to.

So anyways, what we're going to do.

After conversing with the other admins, we have come up with a plan.

#1. Revert the Winter Fall 2018 scoring changes entirely, and remove the pre-game balancer

While I still think it was a good goal to lower the match times from the potential 60-70 minute Dria-TMU/AJY slogs, the player numbers on the server speak for themselves. People don't like the very long 8-minute mulligan, which gave a harsh and unclear border between total victory and total reset. The mulligan was set to such a long value because 2 point regulation wins are hard-coded into the game, and it was felt at the time of the change that 3-7 minute games would be received even worse than the mulligan. To change the regulation score amount would require a mutator, a mutator that we don't have at the moment. That's no reason to keep this system as-is, though. As such, it will be removed, and we will go back to a return of the old scoring system, with a first-to-3 point system.

In addition, some people have blamed EvenMatch's pre-game team balancer for not doing a good job balancing. This will be put to the test, as we will remove it completely for a period of time. OMNI has a lot of power vehicles that serve as PPH fountains, which can throw off the balancer, which runs purely on PPH for balancing. But it remains to be seen if pure join order randomness will be any better.

Both of these changes will be put into effect this Friday, March 1st, 2019.

#2. Run a poll to select a scoring system in the coming months

Over the years, there have been many suggestions for scoring methods. Goose has suggested a system with low-regulation times and long core drains to emphasize territorial control. Others have advocated for the DW scoring model, with 1 point regulation wins. After a period of stability of at least a month, a poll will be run where the people will choose which system they would like to have a trial of on the server. An option in favor of the old system will also be available. There are some complications with the DW option though, which I'll get to in the next part.

My admin mandate has feces all over it, so I won't be upset if people want to keep things the same for a bit longer.

#?. Where in the world is OMNI's Analog?

Lastly, I've been asked if the OMNI could have a stats server. The answer to that, alongside other good suggestions like the DW scoring system, is that I'd like to see those things happen, but analog, the person who runs the server and would be needed to make those changes a reality, simply isn't around, and hasn't been around since July. I thank him for continuing to keep the lights on, and Carpe for still checking in and doing server things for us despite not having really played on the ONS server in years, but there's only so much that we can do without analog. Carpe has tried to get contact with analog, but his attempts for months have been unfruitful. I can only hope that he will return soon, as there is still a strong will in the server community to keep this game alive and going. It just needs some help from above to keep things fresh. If anyone has a means of contact with analog, see if you can get in contact with him. His return would be greatly appreciated by most here I think, and if something's happened we can be more in the know about it.


EDIT: Forgot I put those scoring changes under Fall rather than Winter. Also, this change will technically be in the Winter season, but eh.
----

So yeah, that's about it. 15th anniversary of UT2k4 is coming in a couple of weeks, and CEONSS-OMNI Round 5 will be occurring around then. Come sign up for a good time playing with people across the pond! Also got a couple of other posts/announcements that will be coming soon.

Let us know what you think about what's been said above, and thank you for continuing to play with us.
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:23 PM   #2
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Worsts comes to worst, I can host the server at my house in Central NY.
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Old 02-28-2019, 12:51 PM   #3
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Thank you Mailbox for all your efforts on this, I and others here really appreciate it. We all love THIS game and for me there is nothing in the running that even comes close. Epic Games still have their heads up their asses, I just hate the thought of playing something like Deathmatch style Fortnite.
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Old 02-28-2019, 11:23 PM   #4
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Thank you Mailbox for all your efforts on this, I and others here really appreciate it. We all love THIS game and for me there is nothing in the running that even comes close. Epic Games still have their heads up their asses, I just hate the thought of playing something like Deathmatch style Fortnite.
Nah McLovin, they don't have their heads up their asses, they just have their hands in the pockets of dumb ass people that shell out massive amounts of money for fortnite battle passes that basically give you nothing but cosmetic upgrades. Fortnite's revenue was $2.4 BILLION in 2018. It's genius really, and although they have left UT fans kinda out to dry, they are in business to make money.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:02 PM   #5
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Changes have been put into effect on the server. The original system, with first to 3 scoring, no mulligan, and no pre-game balancer, is now in effect. There may be some other settings that I have not flipped yet. If there's anything that pops up, let us know here.

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Nah McLovin, they don't have their heads up their asses, they just have their hands in the pockets of dumb ass people that shell out massive amounts of money for fortnite battle passes that basically give you nothing but cosmetic upgrades. Fortnite's revenue was $2.4 BILLION in 2018. It's genius really, and although they have left UT fans kinda out to dry, they are in business to make money.
I wouldn't say that. Epic's diverted resources to something that is much more lucrative than a new UT would probably ever be, to the hot battle royale genre vs. the arena shooter genre that has been out of the spotlight for over a decade. I can't blame them for doing so. It'd be nice for them to throw a bone to us with all the Fortnite money. But until that point, we will have to take things in our own hands and do the best that we can.
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Old 03-01-2019, 05:19 PM   #6
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Enyo, you have become a good admin. You are involved and are fair, couldn't ask for more. Now Dognuts... not so much
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Old 03-01-2019, 10:01 PM   #7
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It was worth a shot to try and make the matches better, but I'm glad the mulligan is gone. I hated when people would start sandbagging to avoid the mully, rather than having remix in hopes of getting a better match.

I like the idea of 1 point matches (OT), best of 3 format. 2-3 minute regulation with a long OT. It should still keep the max length under an hour.
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:09 AM   #8
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Changes have been put into effect on the server. The original system, with first to 3 scoring, no mulligan, and no pre-game balancer, is now in effect. There may be some other settings that I have not flipped yet. If there's anything that pops up, let us know here.

I wouldn't say that. Epic's diverted resources to something that is much more lucrative than a new UT would probably ever be, to the hot battle royale genre vs. the arena shooter genre that has been out of the spotlight for over a decade. I can't blame them for doing so. It'd be nice for them to throw a bone to us with all the Fortnite money. But until that point, we will have to take things in our own hands and do the best that we can.
Thanks for working on the scoring reversion Mailbox.

I think you're actually echoing my point about fortnite, I just wasn't very eloquent about it. That they've diverted resources to something far more profitable is exactly right. And I don't blame them either, as a business their goal is to be profitable. I was conflating that point with my personal opinion about people that shell out $100's of dollars for essentially cosmetic upgrades for a video game is that they are 1) stupid, 2) bad with their money, or 3) have more money than they know what to do with. Useful idiots, so to speak.

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Enyo, you have become a good admin. You are involved and are fair, couldn't ask for more. Now Dognuts... not so much
Thanks Sarge. I know some weren't thrilled with me becoming an admin with my propensity for a good tongue lashing... but I try my best not to let emotions drive any admin related action.
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Old 03-02-2019, 12:22 PM   #9
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Thanks for working on the scoring reversion Mailbox.

I think you're actually echoing my point about fortnite, I just wasn't very eloquent about it. That they've diverted resources to something far more profitable is exactly right. And I don't blame them either, as a business their goal is to be profitable. I was conflating that point with my personal opinion about people that shell out $100's of dollars for essentially cosmetic upgrades for a video game is that they are 1) stupid, 2) bad with their money, or 3) have more money than they know what to do with. Useful idiots, so to speak.



Thanks Sarge. I know some weren't thrilled with me becoming an admin with my propensity for a good tongue lashing... but I try my best not to let emotions drive any admin related action.
....and he also meant to say that you are a douche for impugning (that means calling into question Sarge) the sterling (that means good) reputation of a player named after a dog's genitalia....
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Old 03-02-2019, 08:23 PM   #10
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Back to classic scoring system, great! I like it! Just random, no more balancing BS that put Xexx and Enyo together against me on the other team (seemingly 95% of the time).
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Old 03-09-2019, 04:34 PM   #11
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Worsts comes to worst, I can host the server at my house in Central NY.

I do think its time to start thinking clean sheet as far as server.

I think I had some contact on the server stuff with Analog but I dont think I have e mails or anything from him. He got me off the "firewall" problem so I could play here again.
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Old 03-10-2019, 03:35 PM   #12
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....and he also meant to say that you are a douche for impugning (that means calling into question Sarge) the sterling (that means good) reputation of a player named after a dog's genitalia....
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Old 03-10-2019, 07:53 PM   #13
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Hey everyone. Following a week or so since the changes, it has become clear that the team balance has gotten worse without EvenMatch. I sort of figured this would happen, but I figured the best way to restore trust in the system is to give a reminder of what things are like without it.

The pre-game team balancer will be returning this Wednesday, unless there are any objections.


EDIT: Mailbox 180 180 2: Unreal Boogaloo, context in my next post

Last edited by Mailbox; 03-11-2019 at 03:27 AM..
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Old 03-10-2019, 09:42 PM   #14
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Hey everyone. Following a week or so since the changes, it has become clear that the team balance has gotten worse without EvenMatch. I sort of figured this would happen, but I figured the best way to restore trust in the system is to give a reminder of what things are like without it.

The pre-game team balancer will be returning this Wednesday, unless there are any objections.

I strongly object to this. I like you and appreciate what you are doing for this server but I will challenge you on this. How exactly have you determined that things have gotten worse? There is nothing even close to proof that the balancer worked at all and imo it did not. Taking the pph from only the previous round is not nearly adequate. Right before you changed things back we were often getting 7 minute rounds, then the mulligan with balance, then 2 minute rounds. That is not correct functioning.


The default system worked fine for years. The only reason the balancer was implemented is because at the time we had a lot of people switching teams and spectating until they got on the team they wanted. I can't believe I'm arguing against that thing again. We've been over this so much. Play the cards you are dealt and move on.
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Old 03-10-2019, 10:33 PM   #15
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Hey everyone. Following a week or so since the changes, it has become clear that the team balance has gotten worse without EvenMatch. I sort of figured this would happen, but I figured the best way to restore trust in the system is to give a reminder of what things are like without it.

The pre-game team balancer will be returning this Wednesday, unless there are any objections.
Was this discussed in the admin section and I just missed it? I disagree with implementing it back in too. There's absolutely zero hard evidence that it's better or worse without it. I honestly think it makes no difference... given the overall lower quality of players on the server these days mixed with a few really strong players, you're always going to have unbalanced teams.
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Old 03-11-2019, 03:26 AM   #16
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Was this discussed in the admin section and I just missed it?
Yeah, I was being pretty high strung earlier. I got my complaints, so I'll quickly call that quick 180 off (like back in December). Sorry about that.

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There is nothing even close to proof that the balancer worked at all and imo it did not.
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There's absolutely zero hard evidence that it's better or worse without it.
You are both right. And that's the problem, isn't it? We don't really have an effective means to analyze matches. Doubly so since we don't have the official stat database anymore, even though it didn't correctly parse matches from most of our maps anyways. Now, if we had a UTStatsDB instance on the server and the means to do some data crunching we could work towards making that a reality. But, analog's still missing, so that's still on a whole lot of not happening.

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How exactly have you determined that things have gotten worse?
Short of manually recording match data on a regular and frequent basis, I only have what any of us here have: Observations in our games. Before making that post, I spectated a few back to back lopsided matches. 4-0's, 2 round 3-0's. People were complaining about the balance, warning that people would leave the server if they get sledged like this. So I got "I made a change and it's my fault so let me quickly undo"-itis. As you both noted though, it's hard for us to empirically determine what's really better. Finding some better scoring method that enables for somewhat shorter matches without going full Fall 2018 like the server did would be the best solution for that problem with our current situation.

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I can't believe I'm arguing against that thing again. We've been over this so much.
Forgive me, Binger. Going back, it's been a year since this was last discussed at length as far as I can tell, when analog ran a poll for the inter-round balancer. Also, I never had strong opinions on EvenMatch nor was I the face of those changes at the time, so I wasn't pruning those discussions much, especially with the mudslinging that was going around back then.

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Play the cards you are dealt and move on.
I'm not sure what this means in this context, if I'm honest. It was simpler times for me before I took up adminship. Maybe I'll move on one of these days...
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:19 AM   #17
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I'm not sure what this means in this context, if I'm honest. It was simpler times for me before I took up adminship. Maybe I'll move on one of these days...
Nah, Binger wasn't going after you. Just kidding.. he was just talking about dealing with the random nature of things - if the team happens to be unbalanced, then oh well. All card games are like this. Imagine playing a card game with a deck that was already "pre-balanced"?!? I never thought of this myself, lol. BTW, I did get bored with the balancer - most of the time, I was playing against the same guys.



We do appreciate your concern! That alone already makes you a great admin.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:07 AM   #18
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...Play the cards you are dealt and move on.
"Sometimes you are the bug, sometimes you are the windshield" - Hardspike
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:12 PM   #19
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Forgive me, Binger. Going back, it's been a year since this was last discussed at length as far as I can tell, when analog ran a poll for the inter-round balancer. Also, I never had strong opinions on EvenMatch nor was I the face of those changes at the time, so I wasn't pruning those discussions much, especially with the mudslinging that was going around back then.

I'm not sure what this means in this context, if I'm honest. It was simpler times for me before I took up adminship. Maybe I'll move on one of these days...
Please don't quit. You are doing a good job and I really appreciate the things you are doing for this server even if I may disagree with something you decide. You listen to the community, put your own feelings aside, and follow up on changes. Good stuff, man. Ofc, none of this will matter soon if Analog is no longer watching over the server. I fear its days are numbered. Probably best to backup important files if possible.

BoFox explained the "cards dealt" accurately. And by "you" I didn't mean you specifically. I meant it as a saying that applies to everyone. The way the teams are filled in this game is about as truly random as can be. I'm fine with that.
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Old 03-11-2019, 04:52 PM   #20
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...none of this will matter soon if Analog is no longer watching over the server. I fear its days are numbered. Probably best to backup important files if possible.

I meant it as a saying that applies to everyone. The way the teams are filled in this game is about as truly random as can be. I'm fine with that.
I fear this. If the server has an unrecoverable fault that requires Analog to fix, we are all screwed. DW may become the hot new gal in town.


Last edited by McLovin; 03-12-2019 at 01:36 AM..
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