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Old 05-29-2018, 08:29 AM   #1
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While it's patently obvious my ONS spurs are hangin' in the hall closet covered with a thick layer of dust, my heart
still resides here. I've also been reticent in even checking up on the state of the asylum (insert appropriate non-gaming
excuse) so when I wander in to give things a once over and see the devolution it saddens me.

The reality of this moment in UT2K4 ONS time is covered in this post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enyo View Post
Appreciate the enthusiasm McLovin, but I think the server is unfortunately already going to shit, just a little slower than a heart beat. Even Friday and Saturday nights are often dead after 10pm now, with only a few dedicated players on, whereas a year ago you could expect a full server even at 1am. And if it is full, easily 3/4 of the players are total fuck-offs that don't actually play as team and tool around doing their own thing. To make things worse, many of those fuckers are also text chat trolls.

Nature of a game you can buy in the bargain bin for $2 I guess, but it would be nice if Carpe and the other Omni gods would bestow some admin powers to some actual regular players. The type of shit Binger mentioned has become rampant simply because there is virtually zero policing of player's actions anymore. And I understand the previous need for the old rules of screenshots and evidence to take admin action on someone when this community was much much larger, but Carpe et al. should considers loosening the demands on their admins to file reports, provide evidence or whatever they have to do to justify a kick or ban. I've seen comments from more than one admin that they sometimes don't kick/ban players because they don't want to have to deal with the ensuing red tape, or they simply don't want to have to stop playing to go take screenshots or record.

If everyone on a team is pleading with an admin to kick someone because they're idle, not playing or just plain fucking around, a present admin should no longer have to leave the game to go spec the asshat... just session kick them with a warning of why. I have never witnessed a team trying to get someone kicked for any nefarious reasons. And no, nobody has tried to get someone kicked because they have a low score, it is ALWAYS because we have witnessed someone sabotaging their own team, sleeping at the core or acting like the Roger of old. And I'm sorry, but if you're 10-15 minutes into a match and you have zero points, you're doing jack shit and need to go... not low score, but no score after a period of time should be kicked.

So, all that said I nominate the following as potential new admins:
McLovin
Binger
Sarge
Spoon
Dognuts

I know none of them want the job, but these are all reasonable level-headed people that play regularly and would act fairly. But some of them may be willing to take it on if they aren't bound by a bunch of red tape to take quick action during a game. Note I did not put myself in that list, I'm well aware that I would not be very judicious.
At this point, it's the players baby. I've already put a message into the admins section of the forum releasing them from the "paperwork" portion
of the job. I was reticent to do so because that puts somewhat of a "checks and balances" on the admins and protects them, but I get the
climate of Omni ONS has radically changed. So now it's up the the existing admins to do their thing with more freedom. But, that means
it's going to be a less forgiving playground now, anyone that feels their wrath is going to basically have no recourse.

Also contemplating adding a couple of admins (and culling the current roster of no-shows) but I'm reticent to follow through on that because
of the toxic atmosphere that has developed between the long-in-the-tooth players. I'm not overly confident some players can put aside
their "hatred" of others and act accordingly. But I'll think on it.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Xexx View Post

You people want to create massive vehicles with 2000 health that one shots the shit out of everything, then you want to stick them on every map without wondering how it's going to impact the balance? You create all these gimmicks and then you wonder why people use them to win?

I played VCTF for 5 years or more before I spent hardly any time here. I'd still prefer to be playing it now. I don't like the mino, I don't like the one shot vehicles with gimmicky abilities and none of my favorite maps have these things. Tanks a lot, master bath, hell the only map I've edited and suggest we have here is Egyptian war and it's a small map with none of the above bullshit on it. I've suggested numerous times we have smaller maps with less gimmicks. I've suggested we even host gametypes with other playstyles (VCTF) but the popular consensus is bigger better with more gimmicks until the game is literally bugging out where shots don't register and it's crashing because of it.

If your shit is getting spammed and killed by one person, it's clearly a failure of design and planning.
"you people". Pretty broad brush Xexx.

But I get what you're saying. In fact, it's one of the primary reasons I stopped playing ONS. I've tried many times over the years
to at least have a taste of old-school ONS but met with resistance every time and I eventually gave up. There was a time when a
perfect balance existed (yes, the Mino was there along with a handful of other modified vehicles) where the gameplay/balance was
fantastic. I've had instances in the last 4 or so years where I thought I should play ONS again, but the current state of the game
itself (as Xexx has laid out) quickly changes that thought process for me.
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Old 05-29-2018, 02:19 PM   #2
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Well, I'll have to say this post was a long time coming. Thanks for coming down to visit us in dog park #10.

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Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post

Also contemplating adding a couple of admins (and culling the current roster of no-shows) but I'm reticent to follow through on that because
of the toxic atmosphere that has developed between the long-in-the-tooth players. I'm not overly confident some players can put aside
their "hatred" of others and act accordingly. But I'll think on it.
I tried reminiscing which admins I've seen lately, and I can only really remember Flounder and KillerDoggie being around as of late. I haven't seen JSB, McGimpkins, or Turbo_K on the server in months, and as such would welcome a cycling of admins.

I also feel that the environment has gotten much more hostile as of late, with the "want to ween" getting into people's psyches more IMO. The 1 hour long TMU slogs don't help matters. Considering the jokesters like beetchucker and Colbye and the over the top team leader GTKU are gone, things aren't as light hearted anymore.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
But I get what you're saying [Xexx]. In fact, it's one of the primary reasons I stopped playing ONS. I've tried many times over the years
to at least have a taste of old-school ONS but met with resistance every time and I eventually gave up.
Anecdotally, I feel like despite the map roster being more or less the same, people are more consistently voting for the same 10 maps more and more: All 3 MTMUs, both Tanks-A-Lots, two (now three) Junkyards, Nevermore, and Dria. All of which have either a Mino or, in the case of Tanks-A-Lot, camping Ion Tanks. The days where maps like Tyrant, StarReach, and Grit get 24+ players seem to occur less often nowadays (although a game of StarReach did get 35 players yesterday on a quite active Memorial Day).

While the community can be somewhat resistive at times, there was a well received request recently to bring stock Torlan of all things onto the server. There is some want to come back to a more vanilla experience, some want to get away from the spamfests of today. But the playerbase depends on you and analog to push that envelope in, and then for the other players to actually vote these maps in.

On the same line of giving the admins free reign on their judgement, I wouldn't mind seeing some server changes directly from the omni members. Let's shake the rules and the map roster up, and see what happens. Should there be some new mapper design code on dos and don'ts? Should there be a map roster rotation system? Should we cut down the number of rounds per map? If you think something's a good idea, just put it out there. Put it on the server for a week and get feedback that way. The stagnant server setup is in part to blame for the current situation, and I wouldn't mind it getting refitted.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
There was a time when a perfect balance existed (yes, the Mino was there along with a handful of other modified vehicles) where the gameplay/balance was fantastic. I've had instances in the last 4 or so years where I thought I should play ONS again, but the current state of the game
itself (as Xexx has laid out) quickly changes that thought process for me.
If you think that's the case, than lets try ripping out the new and putting the old back in. If you think change would be good, then let's change. I'd love to see to get some map meta shakeup.

The state is stale and injured. The state hasn't had much change in years. I welcome change to the server with open arms. Whatever you and analog feel are best, let's give it a shot.
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Old 05-29-2018, 03:07 PM   #3
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re: maplist.

Currently on HoC (Freon) we have about 240x maps. Too many for "one show", so we have them divided into 3 separate
map packs (of about 80x each). Every month a new map pack see's the light of day. Which means that for one month
out of every three you see the same maps. Add's a bit of freshness. I've suggested something similar here but gotten
tepid reactions at best. If I still played, I'd just do it but that's unfair since I don't actually play anymore.

Comments ?
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Old 05-29-2018, 04:15 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
re: maplist.

Currently on HoC (Freon) we have about 240x maps. Too many for "one show", so we have them divided into 3 separate
map packs (of about 80x each). Every month a new map pack see's the light of day. Which means that for one month
out of every three you see the same maps. Add's a bit of freshness. I've suggested something similar here but gotten
tepid reactions at best. If I still played, I'd just do it but that's unfair since I don't actually play anymore.

Comments ?
I've been in support of map rosters in the past, and still support the idea now. I think there could be 2 map packs, switched weekly so that the drought between playing someone's favorite map won't be too drastic. Each pack can have 1-2 MTMUs (maybe Kamek on both), a junkyard, and a TAL edit. That alone would suppress the issue of multiple junkyard maps getting played in a night.

I was never in the dissent group on this topic, though.
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Old 05-29-2018, 05:58 PM   #5
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Carpe, I just want to be clear that I do not think the OMNI ONS server is devolving because anything you or other admins/mappers have done in relation to map rosters or heavily modified high-powered vehicles. It's like any other real or virtual community that experiences a decline in policing and shortly thereafter spirals into chaos, frustration, anger and eventually people just leaving. There is just currently a severe lack of disciplinary action against rule-breakers and people who aren't really there to play. That's really all I think this server needs to keep it going a good while longer.

I like just about all of the maps with few exceptions, but it would be nice to see them changed out once in a while or have some more old-school ones back in, like Torlan. And I care even less about what types of vehicles or weapons are available... stock or over-powered really doesn't matter, because in the end it all comes down to how you use them and changing strategies based on what is available. I like stock and I like "over-powered" because they both have a different dynamic and can completely change the pace of the game. That requires adaptation, which keeps things interesting for me. Hell, I originally came from the RMD server... check their shit out and you might not think OMNI's stuff is so OP then.

That said, Carpe I'm all for just going ahead and throwing in some of the original stock maps, maybe even do a rotation like you do with Freon. But, if you do add Torlan back on the server, I expect to see your ass on the battlefield at least once in a blue moon!
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
At this point, it's the players baby. I've already put a message into the admins section of the forum releasing them from the "paperwork" portion of the job. I was reticent to do so because that puts somewhat of a "checks and balances" on the admins and protects them, but I get the
climate of Omni ONS has radically changed. So now it's up the the existing admins to do their thing with more freedom. But, that means
it's going to be a less forgiving playground now, anyone that feels their wrath is going to basically have no recourse.

Also contemplating adding a couple of admins (and culling the current roster of no-shows) but I'm reticent to follow through on that because
of the toxic atmosphere that has developed between the long-in-the-tooth players. I'm not overly confident some players can put aside
their "hatred" of others and act accordingly. But I'll think on it.
I think I said this in the other post... I completely understand the desire for checks and balances on the admins and preventing them from becoming little tyrants that boot people simply for making them mad. And it is probably a bit of a risk going that route, but the alternative is letting things continue on as they are, which is not going in the right direction. There's always going to be some animosity between some personalities, but I really don't think the long-time players I mentioned would abuse their power. And if they did, I'm sure it would get reported on the forum and it could be dealt with appropriately by removing admin powers.

So, please do consider adding 3-4 admins that are regular players. Forgot to put him in my list, but Mailbox would be another good choice.
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Old 05-29-2018, 06:15 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mailbox View Post

While the community can be somewhat resistive at times, there was a well received request recently to bring stock Torlan of all things onto the server. There is some want to come back to a more vanilla experience, some want to get away from the spamfests of today. But the playerbase depends on you and analog to push that envelope in, and then for the other players to actually vote these maps in.
Quote:
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but it would be nice to see them changed out once in a while or have some more old-school ones back in, like Torlan.

yes yes YES
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Old 05-29-2018, 08:34 PM   #8
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Also:
http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthr...t=14876&page=4
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Old 05-30-2018, 05:45 PM   #9
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Carpe, Enyo,

There is a lot of text in this thread already so I'll dispense with quoting and say just a few things:

1. There are risks inherent with removing red tape for admins but it's something that I think can be managed and should the need arise, dealt with. I firmly believe in the need to session kick someone when they're committing douchery. A full ban should still be met with red tape IMO.

2. Yes there is a bit of animosity between some of the "long in the tooth" players but I for one wouldn't kick anyone simply because I don't get along with him/her. I'd kick only when deserved and IAW the rules. Life's too short to be a vindictive prick and I know that each of the people that Enyo put forward for consideration feel the same way.

3. I've had misunderstandings with people that I've been able to clear up. Termy and I didn't get along and it turned out to be a complete misunderstanding and we get along great now...except I secretly hate him for kicking my ass all the time My point? People can actually un-fuck their relationships if they really want to.

4. Varying map packs and rotations is worth a try. People can provide feedback and we can see where that take us.

5. I've been around for ages and would hate to see this server go down the shitter when it doesn't have to. What is obvious to me is that the status quo isn't working so why not try something different?

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Old 05-30-2018, 07:27 PM   #10
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I think a big “problem” is the recycling of the same maps over, and over...and over...

Right now, I bet two bits that it’s on junkyard.

Or perhaps a new RPG INVASION server is in order...? At the very least, we need to figure out some way to bring the two communities together and MORE AWARE OF EACH OTHER.



But back on topic. The names listed as potential new player/admin-ish group all have my support.

I forgot my main point I was gonna make.

More maps. Less bitching. Go Gamecocks.
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Quote:
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I can't imagine what happens to players that were fully active in the previous map and then space out between maps but can't be bothered to disconnect or spectate.

Are they the same type of people that sit at a green light because they thought of something far more important to do while the light was red?

Either that or they can't stand to be alone with their thoughts because the silence is deafening.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:07 PM   #11
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What we need is for Ninja to play UT2004 at Omni on twitch.tv. 100,000 live viewers and we'd be back in the saddle.
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Old 05-30-2018, 08:23 PM   #12
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A change in the admin guard can't come soon enough... had two more players chat trolling and not playing again today. HarryRBush and We_Miss_GTKU (obvious alias, I think it's Quisp because he always types the same stupid comments to me) – both spamming the chat, leaving and coming back in repeatedly on different teams, and generally doing nothing to help their team, i.e sitting at our core on D-junk with a centaur while we controlled the entire map. And no, not protecting the nuke tank.

Anywho, tried repeatedly to get people to kick vote to no avail. Once again, self policing is definitely not working and will only continue to hurt this server.

Sarge said he would accept an admin position if he is asked. Dognuts I believe expressed the same. Carpe, save your server bro!
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Old 05-30-2018, 09:31 PM   #13
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What if, instead of doing a full-blown map rotation, we removed all copies of the same map? Every once in awhile, the maps with duplicates would get switched out for a different version, but there would still only be one version at a time on the server. Couple that with lowering the game score limit to 2, and increasing the map cooldown to 18, and you would get a very well-rounding ONS experience in a typical evening. Or we can keep voting in the same tank maps every day until everyone gets sick and tired of them and leaves ONS for good. .
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Old 05-30-2018, 11:21 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo K View Post
What if, instead of doing a full-blown map rotation, we removed all copies of the same map? Every once in awhile, the maps with duplicates would get switched out for a different version, but there would still only be one version at a time on the server. Couple that with lowering the game score limit to 2, and increasing the map cooldown to 18, and you would get a very well-rounding ONS experience in a typical evening. Or we can keep voting in the same tank maps every day until everyone gets sick and tired of them and leaves ONS for good. .
Map cooldown of 18 better make sure maps 19 through whatever are at least good maps. They don't have to be excellent but being forced to play some of the duller maps could make things worse.
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Old 05-31-2018, 12:01 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turbo K View Post
What if, instead of doing a full-blown map rotation, we removed all copies of the same map? Every once in awhile, the maps with duplicates would get switched out for a different version, but there would still only be one version at a time on the server. Couple that with lowering the game score limit to 2, and increasing the map cooldown to 18, and you would get a very well-rounding ONS experience in a typical evening. Or we can keep voting in the same tank maps every day until everyone gets sick and tired of them and leaves ONS for good. .
That’s a good start, but I think would result in the exact same rotation every day. Kinda like now.

I would love to see a random map each time. But I’m weird.
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Quote:
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I can't imagine what happens to players that were fully active in the previous map and then space out between maps but can't be bothered to disconnect or spectate.

Are they the same type of people that sit at a green light because they thought of something far more important to do while the light was red?

Either that or they can't stand to be alone with their thoughts because the silence is deafening.
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Old 05-31-2018, 01:37 PM   #16
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Timely thread. We actually played Denum-Turbo K last night and people were amazed at the "new map". I agree there's too much TMU, JY, hour and half of Dria. Sometimes those are fun but others it just drags on.



I like the map pack idea. I seconded (or thirded) the stock torlan. There's plenty of good maps out there (some are on other servers) that aren't as camp with the mino (which is fun at times).


I also think we should add some admins, lately there have been several idlers, in addition to the shit disturbers and no one there to kick them.
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Old 06-02-2018, 12:47 PM   #17
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I'm sorry to be negative but I don't expect much change. We've been through all this before.

What is this thread even about. Yeah we need more admins. That's obvious. Being an admin is hard. Deal with it. The maps are fine. People vote the maps they want for a reason. Don't force people to play maps. This will turn into people wanting to weed out tank maps and whatever else they don't like. Everyone has their own tastes.

It's all been discussed before and here we still are. How many times has map rotations been brought up? The only meaningful thing about this thread is that Carpe is going to apparently make it easier for admins to do their job. I'm not really clear on how though. What paperwork are you talking about?

My suggestions for making the server better would be to have more admins but have more strict rules on why they can kick or ban players. I hate it when Xexx drops bombs on the roof of Minus and if I had my own server he would be permanently banned from it but banning him from Omni at this point would be wrong. Let the debatable shit go and only ban people for obvious shit and it would be a huge improvement.


And while you're at it could you please increase the time-out on the forums???
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Old 06-03-2018, 08:49 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
I'm sorry to be negative but I don't expect much change. We've been through all this before.
Remember, I've been around since the beginning, so this is like some UT2K4 version of Groundhog Day for me.


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I'm not really clear on how though. What paperwork are you talking about?
Screenshots and documenting every single action in case [Player A] shows up and has the usual hissy fit and claims persecution.
40oz, GTKU, Paminator, etc etc etc. Rinse and repeat.

So now, if an admin bans or kicks you, that's it. As that player you have no recourse except to hear why you were turfed and
regardless of whether you think it's fair or not the only way to stay around is not do what you had done to get banned/kicked.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post
My suggestions for making the server better would be to have more admins but have more strict rules on why they can kick or ban players.
Please share.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger View Post

And while you're at it could you please increase the time-out on the forums???
Elaborate please. I have no idea what you're referring to.
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Old 06-04-2018, 02:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
I think a big “problem” is the recycling of the same maps over, and over...and over...

Or is it that some maps last FOREVER..hour to hour and half, did a couple of those marathons (not even DRIA!) and by the end I was UT drained. 5 rounds of any map is usually too many (Yes, that opens a can of worms).
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Old 06-04-2018, 05:38 PM   #20
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I would be happy with more maps but I am OK with the ones we have; Main problems I see are chat related:

1 Hijacked for discussions irrelevant to gameplay, including political arguments
2 Useless insults fly that are not helpful; "Don't do that because of this..." is ok, but too often its, "You dumb stains; whats wrong with you doing that ? go die"

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