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Old 03-16-2011, 02:34 PM   #1
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He's back !!! WOOT

Glad to have you lurkin' again my long lost friend.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorzakk
I thought I'd try my hand at using the editor, I'm a bit rusty but doing this wasn't so difficult.

The problem with dria is that it's fast and frantic, but tends to stalemate around node 1 and 2 (the riverbed nodes). Long haul games can be fun, not on fast paced maps, because peoples brains aren't as geared for strategy and can't really keep up with the constant flak shards. So I've addressed the issues.

The node paladins have been turned into Aegises to make those nodes far more defensible, giving people time to get down the nodes which attach it (the corner nodes) or to actually rush the opposing node.

The corner nodes have had their vehicle load outs altered subtly, the tanks there replaced with a fire bender (the ones from scorched), the tanks were being used to hit the back of river nodes with devastating force. Another bender with twinbeams there would result in another round of hill camping. Another thing is that this bender is quite good at dealing with hill camping itself with the fire thrower on the back.

In leu of the fact that there are two less tanks, and remembering that the mantas and scorps can get over this map very fast, the minos respawn time is now 90 seconds as opposed to 120 seconds, meaning a team who are utilizing the aegis protecting the vital 1&2 nodes and using the mino properly can apply the pressure more frequently.

It should still give the fast paced matches without losing the feel of the map and without leading to the endless stalemates. Hill campers might be a little miffed, but there are still 4 twinbeam hounds in the map, two tanks, and two SPMAs, and two king hounds if they really want to hang around shooting at stuff from hilltops.

If you think it's a good idea here ya go...

http://www.gamefront.com/files/20126...-Gorz-2011.rar

On the server now. Thanks Gorzzie.
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Old 03-16-2011, 03:20 PM   #2
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again, great to have you back Gorzy!

on a (pre-observed) technical note, the mino has become a bit menacing for a few players around here(me, not being one of them). then, for those who enjoy it, they seem to camp it(again, there are only a few that actually camp it)... 120 seconds is a long time to camp, thus renders it teamkilling (kickable). im having a problem seeing the Mino rapid re-spawn helping the stalemate battle. i usually focus on running the mino down in my stinger and then direct my sights to the nodes. 120 seconds later, i have to do it again. in that time, my team gets many opportunities to lay the D*ck down on the enemy(). now, with it re-spawning so quick, i have enough time to kill it, die, then kill it again,... etc. meanwhile, nodes are getting pounded in between. not to mention, healing it from a few hundred health is almost pointless. if theres only 1 person linking it, it will take about (estimated) 45 seconds and in that time the enemy is coming for you. its almost worth it to kill yourself and start over fresh in a few seconds.

now, it may work. i am not one to doubt you(as i've modeled my mapping to slightly mimic you, B_Al, Danno,...) i only speak to enrich consideration.

for future edits on this map, i would like to see the 1/2 nodes hold the same distances from the bridges. i forget which one is closer, but it needs to be pushed back so that the goliaths cant spam from the safety of long distance. it might also help if the nodes were just a little weaker. then maybe people will be more reluctant to exit out of the safety of their pea-shooter vehicles and pound it with flack- or God forbid,... LINK IT!

thanks for re-continuing your work here,

Deej
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Old 03-16-2011, 04:27 PM   #3
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The changes added to this map are pretty small, as spelled out in the opening post of Carpe. Dria is a neat map, but overtimes are a bitch, these changes should enable a stronger team (or a team using teamwork and co-ordination) to force a victory.

Don't underestimate the effects small things can have. Back in the 1970s, when the UK had severe unemployment, powercuts, strikes, political turmoil, and the possibly of nuclear devestation at the hands of the Soviet Union the REAL problem here was little old ladies polishing floors and then putting rugs on them, as this public information film clearly demonstrates with graphic horror.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0s0xBEqc7c4

DjAy-T:

Had I thought of the node distances before fiddling I'd have done that. Buggrit. If I open it up again I'll see what I can do about that.... Hmmm.... Maybe moving the bridges south slightly instead?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:10 PM   #4
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I too love the stingers, but hate spinning in circles from way too much torque. Is it possible to lower that a bit and make them more drivable?
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Old 03-16-2011, 06:52 PM   #5
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As easily one of the biggest fans of Dria around, I was a bit worried at first that changes were being made. I *LOVE* a good drawn out game of Dria, those that score 3-2 real close that take over an hour to play (and risk crashing the server a lot more often ) and you all know my obsession with 1 & 2.

The biggest mistake I see people make is, take either 1 or 2, then go for 6 or 9 (the corner nodes), completely forgetting about the other middle node 1 or 2, and then getting to 4-7 from 6-9 and having us get cut off at 1 or 2 because we didn't control both of them.

I'm guessing that you were the original creator of Dria-"Gorz"? I know Dria was a stock map, but I love how this version plays, so I guess I have you to thank for the original version.

Moving the tank off the corner nodes, I must say, is a good idea. Aint nothing more annoying than the tank crawling into 1 and 2 alongside the Paladin for defense, good luck getting 1 and 2 down after a while, that and the long distance back-spam. The Fire-Bender should be an interesting take on strategy.

To me, overtime on that map is more fun than a fast 2 pts a lot of times, because I love to just HOLD on with 2-5 more pts on the core than the other team, but then again, 2 pts shows a true co-ordinated team effort.

I am hoping this eliminates some of the common issues around 1 & 2, but not sacrificing the speed the map gets completed either. The faster Mino respawn proves to be interesting however

Remember, FOR VICTORY -- 1 & 2 ON DRIA!

EDIT -- Just as I was getting all long winded, the map came up to play. So I stopped here and ran to the UT PC -- It still plays just as nice as the original and I like not having the constant regular tank spam at 1 & 2

GOOD MAP -- NO MORE CHANGES PLZZZZZZZ

1 & 2

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Old 03-16-2011, 08:12 PM   #6
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DBX, were you in or did you miss the 5 round Dria slugfest Monday night? That was hella fun.
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Old 03-16-2011, 08:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_X View Post
EDIT -- Just as I was getting all long winded, the map came up to play. So I stopped here and ran to the UT PC -- It still plays just as nice as the original and I like not having the constant regular tank spam at 1 & 2

GOOD MAP -- NO MORE CHANGES PLZZZZZZZ

1 & 2

Don't worry, if any further changes are made they'll be extremely subtle. Dria is my favorite of all the maps I modded, and I don't really *want* to alter the basic feel of how it plays, merely make it more tolerable for long haul games for those who aren't fond of it, and allow people to win more easily when teams aren't evenly matched.

What I noticed;

How subtle these are we'll have to see. The tank spam did clear up, but minotaur presence was more noticable.

People were not actually using the aegises to defend nodes 1 and 2 though, which suprised me. The aegis shield WILL stop a mino round, if you time raising and lowering the shield, allowing recharges, you can hold it off for a while too.

The firebender seemed to be a mystery to one or two. The rear turret fires a fireball with alt fire which is handy against mantas and such if you try for splash damage, the shock combos are more powerful than normal benders (I think more powerful than hellhounds too), but if you get close to something with it you can drop a load of flames on it with the rear turret primary. If you, for example, drop a load onto a node it will tear said node down awfully quickly.

Also, for some reason, people started using the SPMAs.

A possible change that *might* come is moving the river bed nodes (1 and 2) further towards the ends of the river.
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Old 03-16-2011, 10:56 PM   #8
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all i ever wanted


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Old 03-17-2011, 03:50 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorzakk View Post

The aegis shield WILL stop a mino round, if you time raising and lowering the shield, allowing recharges, you can hold it off for a while too.
Though not much help if they have a gunner as the machine gun can almost take it down before the shield is re-raised. Or the main gun is used on anything in that bowl behind or above the aegis, clearing anything inside.
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:36 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GlueEater View Post
DBX, were you in or did you miss the 5 round Dria slugfest Monday night? That was hella fun.
Yup, I was there! Except I was on Blue, and Red won But it went just as well as I'd expect, with each team alternating a 1 pt round. Lasted about an hour and 20 minutes too, according to the stats !

5 (or even 6) point Dria-s are VERY fun. It's just the fight that's the best. Overtimes are NOT bad, because lots of lead-changing takes place on a map like that with 1 and 2. I know the same could be said for MANY other maps on the Omni server (Magic Isle for example), but for me, Dria has always been where its at. If it takes longer than 30 minutes to finish, I find it to be a good experience.

However, I was also there for last nights (Tuesday's 3/15) edition, and that was a quickie. It was good though, because there were times I thought we weren't going to score so quickly, but it was a 4-1 victory. Like I said, fast Dria-s aren't as big of a waste as say, MTMU, because it requires a GOOD team effort to make sure 1 and 2 are secured to get to that core FAST.
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:38 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gorzakk View Post
Don't worry, if any further changes are made they'll be extremely subtle. Dria is my favorite of all the maps I modded, and I don't really *want* to alter the basic feel of how it plays, merely make it more tolerable for long haul games for those who aren't fond of it, and allow people to win more easily when teams aren't evenly matched.

What I noticed;

How subtle these are we'll have to see. The tank spam did clear up, but minotaur presence was more noticable.

People were not actually using the aegises to defend nodes 1 and 2 though, which suprised me. The aegis shield WILL stop a mino round, if you time raising and lowering the shield, allowing recharges, you can hold it off for a while too.

The firebender seemed to be a mystery to one or two. The rear turret fires a fireball with alt fire which is handy against mantas and such if you try for splash damage, the shock combos are more powerful than normal benders (I think more powerful than hellhounds too), but if you get close to something with it you can drop a load of flames on it with the rear turret primary. If you, for example, drop a load onto a node it will tear said node down awfully quickly.

Also, for some reason, people started using the SPMAs.

A possible change that *might* come is moving the river bed nodes (1 and 2) further towards the ends of the river.
Ok, I don't mind SUBTLE changes. That's what you and the mappers do so well -- and I have NO knowledge of the codes and programming and all the stuff all of you do, and as a player, I appreciate updates and facelifts to old favorites, as long as they don't affect the playability TOO much.

I was there for about 80% of the initial play of the new Dria, and I didn't see too much action with the Minos ( I was busy at -- where else -- 1 & 2! )

Less tank spam yes.

I used the Aegis a couple of times on defense. Is there much of a difference between the Paladin, besides speed and armor? I know the shock balls fire faster and more often on them too.

Didn't see the Fire-Benders too much either to pass a judgment. I do like the Fire Tank's ability to take nodes/units down quick with the lingering napalm-like primary fire on other maps.

As for the SPMAs, I'm always seeing them taken on the older version. They are good for 1 & 2, but I don't like how they are out in the open, I like taking them behind cover.

As for the river beds, that I have noticed that there is a LOT of room behind both nodes. Minos love to hide out there, and maybe a slight pull backwards for 1 & 2 wouldn't hurt. I just love rolling the Stinger/Tarantula and having them precisely spin on the ice. Good driver skills help

I was just so fast to offer my take on it, and I think it will be just as good as the old one. Maybe, as you said, more strategy and better chances for an unbalanced team to win. That's always good
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:39 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DjAy-T View Post
all i ever wanted
Less fog? Was that a new feature of this map too?

Reminds me of DW's version of Dria, virtually NO fog at all, except in their mino, you aim squarely at 1 & 2, and half the time it MISSES ....
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:58 AM   #13
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For the record. As long as I am around modified versions of Dria probably won't ever make it onto the server.
There is only one caveat to that, and it was exercised when this version appeared out of thin air with the return
on my Commonwealth mate of old.
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Old 03-17-2011, 09:16 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
For the record. As long as I am around modified versions of Dria probably won't ever make it onto the server.
There is only one caveat to that, and it was exercised when this version appeared out of thin air with the return
on my Commonwealth mate of old.
That's the way I'd like to see it. Consider me a Dria purist -- this edit actually eliminated a minor issue w/ the tank spam at 1 & 2 from the backside at least. I honestly wouldn't mind a pull-back of those nodes either to eliminate a key Mino "rest/heal" spot either. But that's it.

Playing it last night, I felt it played the same as the good old version this server has had for years. It was handled beautifully and I didn't notice anything bad about it.

I am relieved that we won't see any major changes to such a good map, however. It's designed for PERFECTION.

Also try the MTMU version on the MTMU server -- very fun!!!!!
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:02 AM   #15
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the fog is the same in this version as it was in the old one. my 2 screenshots were the difference between the 1/2 nodes- in relation to the bridges. a goliath can spam 1 from the bridge, but it cand spam 2 from it. the distances are substantially different. but as they say in the outback: "no worries! Gorzy's on it!"(not sure about them sayin gorzy in thair phrase, but ehh)
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Old 03-17-2011, 10:38 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D_B_X View Post
Less fog? Was that a new feature of this map too?

Reminds me of DW's version of Dria, virtually NO fog at all, except in their mino, you aim squarely at 1 & 2, and half the time it MISSES ....
I rolled the fog back as far as I dared, but fogless maps tend to turn into lag fests. The Unreal engine sees everything in front of you. Even if things are behind other objects such as vehicles, buildings, whatever, and it actually draws them on your screen then draws the other stuff in front of them. And if said object is an actor (such as another player, a vehicle, a pick up, or even a flak shard) then it creates a channel. This lags you graphically and lags the server because it needs to send more packets. Antiportals and fog are the only two things to counteract this effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
For the record. As long as I am around modified versions of Dria probably won't ever make it onto the server.
There is only one caveat to that, and it was exercised when this version appeared out of thin air with the return
on my Commonwealth mate of old.
I take it we can't have the Earwax Tank on this map?
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Old 03-17-2011, 03:53 PM   #17
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Different topic/map... but listen up !

For those of you that are DriaLovers (and I'm one), play Dawn-)o(. Our esteemed Gorz tweaked that one
as well. For me, it resides in the same class as Dria-Gorz. A map tweaked to perfection (or damned close)
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:27 PM   #18
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Ok, 2nd successful run of Dria Gorz 2011 -- 3-2 and it took about 50 minutes!!!! Plus the classic Dria CRASH during the vote!

EXCEPT

I went to check out the stats (on the UT2004 stats site) after we were finished, and now it looks like this:



I notice that a lot with new maps or edited maps on Omni, but not with EVERY one. Maps like the new Icarus and Tyrant also lack stats

That's one thing I'll certainly miss about the old map now...

Now, knowing that I am not versed on the map editor or the engine or the technology associated with the game, since this only appears on certain edited maps, is there a switch or an option the mapper or server admin can mess with to get this one to display the stats?
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Old 03-17-2011, 07:59 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carpe Diem View Post
Different topic/map... but listen up !

For those of you that are DriaLovers (and I'm one), play Dawn-)o(. Our esteemed Gorz tweaked that one
as well. For me, it resides in the same class as Dria-Gorz. A map tweaked to perfection (or damned close)
If that map had the mino it'd get voted more. Hmmmmm... should we?
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Old 03-17-2011, 08:09 PM   #20
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Quote:
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If that map had the mino it'd get voted more. Hmmmmm... should we?
Dawn seems kind of... small to put a Mino in. I haven't played it in forever so I don't recall the existing vehicle layout, either...

But if that's what it takes to get a map voted these days...
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