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Old 03-24-2012, 04:42 PM   #41
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Great job, Binger, seems you got some stunter blood in you!

Some extra tips & info for budding manta enthusiasts: pack extra health/armour if you're gonna do some manta grenade boosting. Contrary to bio boosting, the propelling blast here must happen right before you enter the manta and, because the ideal place for the 'nades is right below the pilot's seat (pic'd below) and not below the thrusters, you may take ~50-60hp dmg from each 'nade asplodin' (in bio boosting, it's the manta that takes some damage, so as long as you got plenty of link ammo, it's the most efficient and carefree boost solution). You need 2 nades to reach the tower top in Torlan from that high ledge, so if you go there with just your starting health you'll only kill yourself - grab some armour first.
Btw, you don't need to get all the way up there to practice 'nade boosting; the sniper tower at each base can serve just fine as a measuring stick for your efforts. A dual manta nade boost from near the small armour spawn location should get you right below the top platform (also pic'd below); anything worse and you know your timing's not optimal yet. Also, don't hesitate to use the slomo command from the console if you're having trouble with your detonation timing at first: slomo 0.5 will force the game to run at half speed, for example (values can range from 0.1 to 9.0, 1.0 being the default).

Zhe pics:
(pardon that stupid relic stuck to my manta wing in that last pic)

In online matches nade manta boosting can be a much simpler affair (as long as you can coordinate well) since you can get teammates to plant their own nades on your manta and trigger 'em at the right time, thus not having to zip around strapped to your own explosives and potentially getting blown up if an enemy so much as looks at you wrong. Not saying that turning your manta into a hovering bomb can't have its uses though, esp. when you're after some high profile target (say, an enemy tank) and you have 8 nades planted on your ride's tip (the most sensitive part of the manta, as I'm given to understand ): drive straight at it, bail a bit before collision, trigger nades, dead tank.
Lastly, although I don't play VCTF, I understand this tactic can also be very helpful in quickly making one's way out of an enemy base after the wingman's grabbed the other team's flag. Just don't have the carrier do the triggering if they're not sitting as far from the nades as possible. So yeah, nade boosting: creativity's your only limit to how useful (and fun) it can be.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikko
[...]anybody ever attempted to successfully place a scorpion on top of the lightning gun tower in Torlan?
You can get pretty much any vec up there as long as you get enough ppl to work on it (I can't think of a way it could be done on one's own, but I could be wrong), as ppl have found out tacking these "problems" many years ago. Here's the YT version of a clip of an industrious (clan?) group getting a goliath up there I remember having on my HDD in .avi format since... *checks* ...wtf, August '04?! In fact, while we're at it, here's the manta pair flying trick captured in all its glory from way back when too, since I talked about it. I guess the takeaway from all this is, when it comes to UT stunting there's very little that's actually new under the sun (doesn't mean it's still not fun to watch though). Also, if you wanna be a jerk about it, that I'm getting old, but... shut up.


Final challenge (I promise!): make it to the top ledge in BlockFort-V5 without using flyers, teleporters, the tunnels by each base or the stunting mutator. Good luck!


PS:
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Originally Posted by Carpe Diem
Ya, that feature has been borked in here for quite a while. I can't recall the exact reason why, but it's apparently a real pain to get working. I'll nudge the slumbering forum god (Necro) and see what he says.
YT vid embedding's a pretty standard feature for most msg board software by now, surely vB must have at least some addon for it; doubt Necro will have a hard time getting it working.
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Old 03-25-2012, 02:56 AM   #42
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I was actually sticking the grenades to the underside of the manta. I wouldn't want to try to get them to land on that little ledge. It took a while to figure out exactly where to place them. I experimented at the core, just standing back and triggering the grenades and watching the manta. And yeah, I loaded up on health and shield.

I was watching that Manta Theory video when trying to figure out how to jump up there. It's weird how that works. I thought about trying that with no one in the other Manta but you said no other vehicles.

I tried to get a Scorpion on the lightning tower but I can't figure that one out. Are you talking about with no help, Mikko?

I have no idea how to do the Blockfort thing. I noticed in my video that the Deemer didn't kill me on the first explosion. It pushed me away at first and then killed me while I was in the air so I tried something like that on Blockfort with full health and shield and the shield gun out but I kept dying.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:00 AM   #43
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Probably can do it with one of the boost-scorpions, If you get them on a wall pointed up I think they'll boost vertically.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:47 PM   #44
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So last weekend I decided to take a stab at Mikko's Q/challenge. Fueled by Binger's unrelated deemer boosting idea, I set out to test several methods by which that might conceivably work for this problem. Read on below for how each panned out.

The obvious theoretic part states that you'd need a nuke set off almost directly below your scorp (ever so slightly away from the tower) to push you up and toward the sweet spot; you'd also need to be using the god mode cheat, since the nuke would vapourize you otherwise. To that end, the various vertical drop ledges could serve well, whereby the deemer would explode close to the wall at the lower level and you'd be simultaneously driving off the ledge in that direction right above. That means it's a matter of shooting the missile at the right, near-perpendicular, angle which, in the first scenario I tested, required me using even more cheats: floating right above my target to fine-tune my aim before firing and teleporting down to get in the vec right after - maybe even using slomo during the whole gig to buy me more time. Naturally, none of that bodes well even for proof of concept conditions to any further, realistic reproduction, i.e. too many cheats for anyone's taste. So, looking for ways to reduce the "exotic ability" requirements I considered another, naturally placed altitude shortcut, the tower's teleporter. One could fire the fat lady from up top, quickly dodge through the 'porter, get in the vec below and drive off into the blast just as easily, after all, although that narrowed down the ledge choices a lot to only those right next to the bottom exit. Still, the theory was sound and after opting for the slanted one leading to the core, I started testing. A couple dozen tries later I got pushed in the right direction, did a backflip for the lulz and landed at the top of the tower. The stunt is possible. Here's the pics I took while at it.



Eliminating the need for god mode was the next goal, but since we're talking nukes here, as Binger found out himself due to the deemer's repeated detonations cycle, nothing short of true invulnerability could really withstand it. Only other choice was abusing the post-spawn protection and in that scenario, I'd need to have the scorp positioned correctly and waiting right next to a ledge-friendly spawn point, fire the ultimate angry bird from above, suicide, respawn at the right fokn millisecond, get in the car and drive forward. Because the core proximal playerstarts were as numerous as they were useless here, I had to make sure I didn't spawn there by summoning a raptor every time to plug 'em as soon as I'd spawn in one of those. 10 hilarious materialization crushes later, I was only getting bender proximal spawns, so I brought the scorp over and started testing. Btw, although summoning vecs to plug spawn points isn't exactly wholesome playing, theoretically you could cover that area with map endemic vecs (like a couple of tanks and benders), so doing it didn't really break ingame feasibility as far as I'm concerned. Long story short, this method doesn't work. No matter how close you cut it, it's likely that the invuln. effect wears off as soon as you get in a vec because what kept getting pushed by the blast was daisies instead of me higher. Avoid this. No pics for failed method .

As I was tabbed away to rename my snapped screenshots ready to give up and start doing the write-up for this thread, a thought occurred: why did I even need to be inside the vec when there's so many ways to move 'em around from outside? Team vecs themselves are immune to team weaps' dmg so why deal with the problem as a stuntman and not as a pyrotech? Soon after returning to the game, I found this method simplified things a whole lot more, even ignoring the continuous respawns. Same location as in the previous working method, plant 2-3 nades at the back of the scorp positioned near the lip of the ledge, then go upstairs, aim down, fire, switch weaps and detonate the nades. Seen in the pics below, I kept getting warmer and warmer till the kart hit the top ledge nearly scraping my face off, flipped over and suck-cess! There you go, Mikko, one scorp to the top of the base sniping tower, the lazy man's way. Pics below.



If any of you feel like trying this out, here's a few console commands you could use to make your life a bit easier without compromising the trick's plausibility.

- set ONSGrenadeAmmo maxammo 100
- set ONSGrenadeAmmo initialamount 100
- set redeemerammo maxammo 50
- set redeemerammo initialamount 50
- summon xweapons.redeemerpickup
- summon onslaught.onsrv (if you're not speccing, in a vec or in ghost mode, doing this will crush you)

Anyway, that's all there is to it. Don't say I only hand out work and never do any myself .


Two more things:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger
I was actually sticking the grenades to the underside of the manta. I wouldn't want to try to get them to land on that little ledge.[...]
All you need to do is get on it yourself, stand at its center, point straight down, fire off a couple of charges, then just move back a bit. After a couple of slow bounces they'll settle right where you wanted and this works anywhere with a level surface. Added benefit to placing the 'nades this way instead of trying to get a big enough part of your manta's underside exposed to stick 'em directly to is, you're on top and the vec's right below you. When you're done nading you can just drop down and grab it again, whereas the other way around you'd need to waste a half-charge shieldjump's worth of health to reach it again - not the best of plans in a map with scarce extra health pickups like Torlan, certainly not if you'd need to repeat the process several times to get the timing right.
I found out about the nade planting trick some years ago from the AS guys who'd pump out a couple each whenever there'd be a possess-type obj to defend (you know, the ones where you need to be stationary right next to the trigger for a few seconds before the charger depletes and it's activated). Unsuspecting attackers would just rush to 'em wondering why nobody's trying to kill 'em, then boom. Obvious solution there would be to look before you leap and just fire something at the floor before landing to be sure (the nades don't glow all the time), but who takes the time to do that, right? Still, it's a method that also has several ONS uses - like makeshift, remotely triggered tank mines for enemy minos leaving their bases through narrow passageways (say, as in Dria), etc. - so I thought it's worth talking a bit more about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Binger
[...]I was watching that Manta Theory video when trying to figure out how to jump up there. It's weird how that works. [...]
Yeah, I think the explanation for that has to do with the mantas being the only vec that cares whether the surface/actor below 'em permits jumping off of 'em or not (through the bCanBeBaseForPawns property) before actually being allowed to jump and themselves being a working base for pawns, as we all know. The ONSChopperCraft class vecs, on the other hand, aren't; that includes Raptors, Cicadas and all their subclassed offspring and it's why mantas can't bound off of 'em (but also what made 'em ideal for mid-air rodeo contests years ago!). When two mantas hug this way and press against each other, every tick that the game checks if they should be falling, floating or going over an obstacle/surface below 'em, the result is the latter because the surface (or karma volume?) they're touching permits it even through they're practically at the same altitude. So yeah, perpetual jumping hax! Or at least that's my guess for why it happens, I could be wrong. An experienced vec modder could tell us for sure.
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:23 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pegasus View Post
All you need to do is get on it yourself, stand at its center, point straight down, fire off a couple of charges, then just move back a bit. After a couple of slow bounces they'll settle right where you wanted and this works anywhere with a level surface. Added benefit to placing the 'nades this way instead of trying to get a big enough part of your manta's underside exposed to stick 'em directly to is, you're on top and the vec's right below you. When you're done nading you can just drop down and grab it again, whereas the other way around you'd need to waste a half-charge shieldjump's worth of health to reach it again - not the best of plans in a map with scarce extra health pickups like Torlan, certainly not if you'd need to repeat the process several times to get the timing right...
Good to know. It's actually pretty easy to hang the manta over an edge to sticky grenades to the bottom. Problem was though that I did have to fly back down to do it and then work my way back up the tower. After doing that like 20 times I got pretty fast at it but that's when I just messed around at the core to figure out exactly where to sticky the grenades to get the manta to jump up just right. Mostly I had to make sure they weren't too far back or it would push the manta into the tower and slow it down. When I tried to jump out and missed the ledge a well placed shot would knock the manta back down to the ledge I was on without blowing up the grenades.

In was able to get a scorpion to fly all the way to the lightning gun tower by sticking grenades to the bottom and driving it up the hill outside the core. It was frustrating though as most of the time it wouldn't even get close. I made it fly far enough a couple of times but it missed the tower. Placement of grenades and the scorp on the hill would have to be almost perfect. I gave up after awhile. I didn't even try the manta technique of standing on it and blowing the grenades because I kept falling down the hill when I jumped out. I would need ONSPlus to exit on the correct side and like I said, ONSPlus messes up the demorec for me.
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