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-   -   Badger Bug (http://forum.omnipotents.com/showthread.php?t=14290)

Carpe Diem 11-23-2013 09:36 AM

Badger Bug
 
Gang,

Wormbo is going to have a look at the infamous "badger bug". You know, where you fall through the map
when leaving the vehicle.

Can a few of you provide specific details as to when and how it occurs please ?

thanks.

Binger 11-23-2013 11:38 AM

Someone said once that the vehicle exits are too low. Makes sense to me. Like you exit the vehicle with your feet under the terrain so you fall through. I've only ever seen it happen over terrain. It happens a lot on the one daytime version of Grit. I always try to exit the badger when it's going over a bump or in the air. Either that or wait for it to completely stop moving. It seems to happen less often then.

There is another bug with the Badger. Sometimes you can't exit from the gunner's seat. You have to change to the driver's seat first. If someone is in the driver's seat your stuck. I'm not sure but this may only happen when you enter the vehicle in the driver's seat then switch to gunner.

Turbo K 11-23-2013 01:33 PM

Yeah, if you exit from a moving badger over terrain, it sometimes dumps you under the terrain.

FuzzySlippers 11-25-2013 01:11 PM

Consistent places for me have been exiting at the beginning nodes of Grit (the underground passage building, the side node with the shield), over at the corner tower ruins at Dria, and a few times on the first node near the core in the trench on any of the MTMU maps. I've gotten in the habit of hitting the spacebar when I exit out of a badger. I seem to have less falling through the map moments (or maybe I just think it does... my own little voodoo.) ;)

Wormbo 11-25-2013 03:55 PM

After a bit of PM ping pong with Turbo K, I realized that the Badger exit bug is a combination of unfortunate vehicle exit logic (Epic's fault) and the badger's unusual mesh. When a vehicle moves at over 100 UU/s (for reference: standard player movement speed is 400 UU/s), its predefined exit positions are ignored. Instead, two possible exit locations perpendicular to the movement direction are calculated relative to the vehicle's location, taking only the combined collision radii of the vehicle and the driver and the driver's collision height into account. That's not really a problem in most cases, but the Badger mesh's pivot point (i.e. what counts as location of the Badger) is exactly at ground level.
As a result, players exiting a moving badger will spawn exactly with their feed on the ground, assuming a perfectly level ground. The engine can adjust to small intersections between the exiting driver's collision and a slightly higher ground, but if that difference is more than about half the player's height, the adjustment may place the player below the ground instead. (This only really happens with terrain and static mesh sheets.)
All other vehicles have a much higher pivot point, so it is far less likely to ever become a problem for them.

Carpe Diem 11-26-2013 03:49 PM

soooooo.... I'm getting that it's not fixable ?? :017:

Thanks for the info Worm, you're amazing.

Danno'68 11-26-2013 04:29 PM

Wouldn't this also be the cause when trying to hit a badger with an Avril? The Avril lock always has the missile going to the bottom of the vehicle.
This leads to a lot of avrils ending up short and hitting the ground first. If this could be fixed, then the badger might not be so overwhelming for
foot solders.

Wormbo 11-26-2013 04:29 PM

There's always a way. I even already have an idea how to fix it.

Carpe Diem 11-26-2013 04:56 PM

into Worbo's Slithereum Garages the Badger rolls, to come out the other side all snazzed and jazzed up !

Wormbo 11-27-2013 01:55 AM

The problem with the badger is not only the mesh, but also its many variants. For examples, I have a Badgers.u with the standard Badger and a standard Badger embedded in the FullLoadout map, and they are slightly different. Which one is the newer version? Also the loadout map contains two factories for a "MyBadger" - is that by accident or were these really two different Badgers before ending up in the same map, causing one of them to be overridden? The one that survived seems to be pretty much identical to a standard badger, except that bots prefer driving it alone.

Beth 11-27-2013 08:51 AM

Badgers are big bugs :yuck2: The hover badgers have way to powerful of a kickback. I've driven these and it just kicks you back about a mile as many times as you are shooting. Can this be fixed so it won't throw you back a half mile?:irked:

Danno'68 11-27-2013 09:19 AM

Beth, would a quarter mile be acceptable?

Adolytsi 11-27-2013 10:27 AM

Yeah, I've found that it's because of the kickback that makes sure the hoverbadgers aren't too powerful. A good hoverbadger driver can compensate for the kickback, and that indeed is what keeps it from out-driving and out-shooting most of the other tanks it is able to face off with. If people are game for reducing it, that might be okay, but I'd be against removing it altogether. The one thing about the hoverbadgers, though, that does need to be fixed is whatever causes a single tank shot to the hoverbadger to instantly kill the driver and send the hoverbadger reeling across the map driver-less. No other vehicle does this, as far as I know, and it's pretty much solely because of this that I've given up on driving hoverbadgers around as actual tank weapons.

Wormbo 11-27-2013 01:08 PM

I think the Hoverbadger works very much like the Manta. If you want, I will apply some hovertank magic to it, without taking too much of its current feel, of course.

dimshade 11-27-2013 03:49 PM

Hover badgers can be deadly if used correctly. If upgrades are made I would suggest lowering it's overall life (currently 400).

Turbo K 01-21-2014 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wormbo (Post 200059)
The problem with the badger is not only the mesh, but also its many variants. For examples, I have a Badgers.u with the standard Badger and a standard Badger embedded in the FullLoadout map, and they are slightly different. Which one is the newer version? Also the loadout map contains two factories for a "MyBadger" - is that by accident or were these really two different Badgers before ending up in the same map, causing one of them to be overridden? The one that survived seems to be pretty much identical to a standard badger, except that bots prefer driving it alone.

Have you made any progress lately?

About the multiple Badger factories, I would just use the one on Desert Junkyard. That map has the latest versions of all the vehicles and is usually where I pull them from to place on other maps.

Wormbo 01-23-2014 04:45 AM

Thanks. Standard "Badger Mk.II" and "Hoverbadger Mk.II" should be almost done, but getting the "Megabadger Mk.II" right (i.e. it should handle a bit more like the Minotaur) isn't quite as easy. I wanted to include those two additional Badger variants because they are more different than all the others.


BTW: Did anyone else ever wonder how two people could fit into that small thing, along with an engine and ammo? I mean it's hardly larger than a Manta's cockpit. :P

Binger 01-23-2014 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wormbo (Post 201318)
Thanks. Standard "Badger Mk.II" and "Hoverbadger Mk.II" should be almost done, but getting the "Megabadger Mk.II" right (i.e. it should handle a bit more like the Minotaur) isn't quite as easy. I wanted to include those two additional Badger variants because they are more different than all the others.


BTW: Did anyone else ever wonder how two people could fit into that small thing, along with an engine and ammo? I mean it's hardly larger than a Manta's cockpit. :P

Don't fart.

Wormbo 01-23-2014 10:34 AM

Ah, found the knob to turn on the Megabadger to adjust its speed up/slow down rate. Here's a first beta version of those three updated vehicles:
Badgers V2 beta 1

Like the Dragon update, this one contains a mutator to upgrade existing Badgers, Hoverbadgers and Megabadgers for testing purposes. Summon codes are BadgersV2beta1.Badger, BadgersV2beta1.Hoverbadger, and BadgersV2beta1.Badgertaur.

Listing changes is a bit difficult. I've raised the pivot of the badger model a bit so it's inside the chassis now. That fixes quite a few problems already, for example clipped shadows, entry problems for the Megabadger (it no longer needs a separate use trigger), and weird rotation behavior.
Also I rebuilt the Hoverbadger using parts of its original code and parts of my Hovertank code. It is a bit heavier now and isn't pushed around by damage as much anymore. (That was far too much, compared to other Badgers.) One of its new features is floating - like the Hovertanks, the Hoverbadger will float on water if unoccupied and only slowly takes water damage.
The Megabadger received as big treatment as well. For example its handling works much more like that of the Minotaur. It takes more time to get up to speed or slow down. I've exchanged the two seats so the gunner controls the cannon, just like in other Badgers. It fires only one projectile (Minotaur:3, old Megabadger: 2), but with adjusted damage amount and radius. Instead of the Minotaur-style laser turret, the driver controls a Minigun with explosive munition.

Flounder 01-23-2014 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wormbo (Post 201318)
BTW: Did anyone else ever wonder how two people could fit into that small thing, along with an engine and ammo? I mean it's hardly larger than a Manta's cockpit. :P

It's bigger on the inside.


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